Greg, I respect everything you say and I was not including myself when saying poor souls. I was mainly talking about people who can hunt public land only. This is just my second year to hunt so I still have LOTS of things to learn. That is one reason I am reading this forum as often as I can. Because there are lots of people(yourself included) with a wealth of knowledge that I can take a lot from. I hope to someday be able to spend as much time as you do in the woods. However right now I have more important things in my life. You are absoluetly right, we make our hunts, some people just put hunting trophy bucks on the top of their to-do list.