Troutman, if you can get groups like the picture above you're doing alright. I got lucky and found that my 870/hastings can shoot 3 slugs with the holes just barely touching each other at 50yards. That was with the Federal sabots both the vital-shok deal and the new EXpanders. Every gun will be different...and yeah, its certainly does get expensive. I decided to look at it like this: "Spent $50 bucks to find out exactly what my gun can do...or don't and have a several hundred dollar rig that may be shooting groups twice too big." I'm glad I spent the $50...my groups with the Federals are less than half the size of my groups before.