ORIGINAL: Airborneguy
I'm not trying to dictate anyone's hunt. They can do what they want. I personally would like to see A/R implemented though. Andapparently, other than on this board, it is not just me since we already have it in some zones, which magically are the ones that are most over-hunted and the ones I am talking about where all I see taken are spikes.
Sorry that I missed your sarcasm, but I also never heard that 60% of buck's at 1 1/2 years are 6 pointers. That is definately not true where I hunt, so sorry for basing my opinion on my experience. I cannot quote numbers here, but I will quit hunting in NY if someone can show me that zone 3's numbers are similiar to that! I bet it is not even close.
As for PA, just from reading this forum I see that PA is a messed up state as far as hunting foes. They are always fighting about something. I know what my uncle says though, and where he hunts, he loves the A/R rule and has seen less deer, but bigger bucks, which is exactly what A/R would do ideally. I don't follow PA hunting enough tospeak any deeper than that on the subject.
Just to let you know I'm not bashing you. It was an attempt at an honest question or two.
Steve is quoting biological evidence that is supported by the DEC, and many biologists in NY. The 3 pt. per side rule IS NOT the way to go for state-wide management. That is a fact stated by the state's central deer biologist.
There's a good read in the August issue of NY Game and Fish on antler restrictions. Someone actually took the time and effort to look at it with a "middle of the road approach" that gives both sides. Like I said, it compiles good points for both, but it still remains that hunters are split on this issue. It's not a win-win situation as you promote it to be.
I'm curious about the bold statement.Can you point me to the evidenceyousourced(outside of personal observations, as that is more opinion-based, and not factual) showing that those zones are the ones most over-hunted? The reason the DEC implemented AR there is not because of overhunting...instead it is a biological attempt to get 80% of 1.5 yr. old bucks into the 2.5 yr. old age class. While you may think that is because it is overhunted, that is not the case. Those zoneswere on the level with the rest of the state as far as % harvests pre-AR. If they were overhunted....the DEC would reduce hunting opportunities (ie tags, season dates,DMPs, etc.).
Your underlined statement: What Steve mentioned is regarding statewide numbers. The relevance to Region 3 is that the3pt per side rule works at protecting roughly 80% of the 1.5 yr. old bucks. The problem with that is it doesn't work for several other parts of the state, including the parts of the Adirondacks, the southern tier, and WNY. In those areas, the 3 pt per side would do nothing by wipe out a large majority of 1.5 yr. olds that meet the requirement, creating more biological issues than benefits. The average 1.5 yr old in those areas carries 4-7 points, which may seem shocking, but is true.
You stated earlier that Region 3 is good deer land. While it may not be BAD land, it certainly is not great in overall condition. That's why the 3 pt per side rule is in effect versus a width criterion. What I'm trying to get at is, even WITHOUT hunting, the average 1.5 year old in the 3 WMU's under AR would still be below 5 points in antler size. The DEC did their research on this.
Nobody is saying you are full of crap, or anything of the like. Many people share your belief. However, there are just as many people who have the opposite view.
Why is it fair for you and your group to force what you want on those who don't want it?