HuntingNet.com Forums - View Single Post - Not fast, OR quiet enough !! Little Test I did.

11-15-2002 | 06:19 PM

#12

JeffB

Nontypical Buck

Joined: Feb 2003

Posts: 3,058

Likes: 0

From: CT, USA

RE: Not fast, OR quiet enough !! Little Test I did.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quotequote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
JeffB-

Well now. It's come to this I see, a "facing off" of the "youngster" and the "old Grandpa". (as you put it) I knew that this would eventually happen what with the influx of "Bowtech followers" you seemingly need to try and impress here on the boards, especially when any remark made towards your beloved Bowtech may be taken out of context as detrimental in any way. Oh well, At least you are loyal.....<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

I don't see it as face off.I see your comments regarding Bowtech uneccessary, ignorant and rather blatant lately. Considering another poster basically typed the same thing before I even finished mine, might be a hint that I am not the only one who feels the same way. I doubt quite seriously you (or anyone else) would refrain from "calling me out" were I to make a few jabs at your particular fave brand whenever the chance arrives.

I suggest you check out the "smiley, and wink" I put at the end of the post. It seems we are a bit touchy, eh? I need impress no-one (except the ladies) nor do I try to. I like to talk about archery,and try to remain positive while disucssing all facets, sharing what I do know (which ain't much), and try to learn about things I do not. You (lately) seem to put down anything that is not your personal favorite, whereas I admit my bias( I like Bowtech if no-one else here noticed). I do not have or feel the need to be part of any "clique", however it seems you quite strongly feel that being part of one is a bad thing, and try to avoid being pigeon-holed at any cost. I'm curious if you would feel the same if many more of the posters here shot "your" particular brand? Then that would be OK?

I nowhere insinuated you are a "liar" unless you refer to my farcical "grandpa" post (in that it's a common thing for our elders to exaggerate stuff). If that is the case YOU are the one who took things out of context. Quite a ways, I might add.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> I played the speed game, yes, been there and done that, and regardless of whether it was "back then" or now, it is all the same,<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

I firmly disagree..it IS different in that you admittedly overstressed and abused equipment to shoot speeds it they were NOT designed to handle. Bows today are engineered to purr along (at least for awhile) at those speeds, and are built to better tolerances by far..even "mediocre" quality bows.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>and I am simply trying to "clue people in" on the real deal of the game..<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote> As to the way it was 15 years ago? or today? That's what I am getting at. Accuracy is where it's at as I said.However, equipment is also improving to where accuracy and speed are not mutually exclusive, as you often imply in your "how fast it goes past" statement. If I can shoot the same average size group at 280 FPS as I can at 240 I don't see this as a problem. The numbers do not matter.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Anyone that states they can shoot as well with a 5.5" bow as they can with a 7.5" bow cannot shoot very well IMO because they cannot tell the difference!<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote> Who said anything about that? I think we all here know that. In this case Bowtech is producing a faster bow with a brace height you reccomend. Where is the problem here? I know some guys who are great shots with their ultra low brace equipment and oblivious to what brace height is. A guy at my local range shoots a Hoyt "Smoke". He's not very technically oriented as far as archery equipment. He also beats the pants off most of the guys who shoot with him!

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Like I said, that is why the most popular hunting bows have over a 7" brace height.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote> Absolutely I agree. So where is the problem? the increased speed? If the brace height is there, then what's your beef?

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>As stated, Bowtech has realized this also, and has deepened their brace heights on their "speediest" bows. That was not a detrimental comment by any means, but an accolaide! Nuff said on that.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Didn't sound like it to me... or was your comment just referring to the marketing as a bad thing? I don't understand your direction here..I see as many IBO speeds advertised these days as I ever have.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> stated that speed in itself was BAD. It will always increase, but it needs to do so with forgiving designs, not "rat-traps". I stated that giving up forgiveness for raw speed is BAD. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote> And I agree in a general sense as well, but that's the kind of blanket staement I'm talking about. Several posters have commented (including myself) how well their BKII Op2's and P38DC's shoot, compared to many bows with more "forgiving" features. Seems to me that it might be an "exception to the rule", do you concur? Also see my example above about the guy who shoots the Hoyt Smoke.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>nt me to bash a manufacturer, well lets talk about some other brands, hehe!<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote> Oooohhh... Let's!!! You pick first! <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>You guys simply read too much into my posts in your attempts to make yourselves look smarter while defending your loyalties, trying to "knock off the grandpa".<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Again, this has nothing to do with that...nor is anyone (at least I) trying to "knock off grandpa". I'm just curious why with someone with your experience seems to be so stubborn about stuff that might well have changed for the better..it's not just speed or Bowtech...I've seen you comment in a "my way or the highway" manner re: drop away rests...or the obvious: dual cammers. I'm always willing to be positive and look at the best of each bow manufacturer, design, or accessory manufacturer.When you were on Bowtech's staff not that long ago, you seemed very positive about them. I'm just wondering if they did something to piss you off? or vice-versa? I'm serious here. Because in my web wanderings I have seen several older posts (search on the bowsite for example) where you seemed very enthusiastic about them.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>can learn from us "grandpa's" like Len, Field 14, Arthur P, myself, and others, and should welcome that knowledge<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Indeed I still do, and did! But It also makes me upset when many of the "old timers" (as you said.. or anyone else for that matter) becomes unable to accept anything "new", by giving us a buttload of reasoning that applied 15, or 30 , or 45 years ago, but MAY or MAY NOT apply today. Some old timers swear carbon arrows suck...they base their experience on the days of old..carbons are HUGELY improved today.Or Drop away rests for example. I've seen you "down" on them in several threads. Yep Keith Barner had one out ages ago and probably before him there was some others..and yep..it was not too good of a design..especially for hunting. But his new one IS good. I realize you question their need, assuming properly tuned shooter and equipment..AS DID I..but I decided to give one a try and see if they had changed in 10 years. And I'm very happy I did, it's a nice rest, and even with a moderately decent "shooter tune" (me) and a good "equpment tune" (my bow), I can see some added forgiveness. That's a plus. we all have our likes and dislikes..but these are the sort of "blanket statemenst" I'm seeing from you recently. Is it "alarming"..no...But I also don't remember you being so "my way or the highway" recently.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>It's sad but these are the reasons so many other great techs no longer post<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Diversity and "rebellion" bring change. Sometimes it's good, sometimes bad.Some folks cannot deal with change (I usually am "change resistant&quot

I think the real reason many of the great techs don't post because there are alot of closed-minded people on many boards(The Bowsite in particular) who are not willing to listen (which I think most here are)..That works both ways though, and listening and blindly folowing are two different things. Offering a fresh or different perspective is a good thing for all parties involved, it's how we learn. My 3 year old son teaches me new things everyday, and I've got 30 more years of experience on him. Same with Archery. I've seen kids who can whip the pants off guys who have been shooting for decades. I also know 18 year old kids who can strip a bow and put it back together alot faster than I can (and I've done my share). It's not the quantity of experience, it's the quality. I'm willing to learn all I can from anybody, but I'm also willing to "call out" a "blanket statement" that I just don't agree with based on my personal experience. My "BS" statement was regarding your implication that Bowtech somehow all of a sudden decided a higher brace height was good. I simply pointed out you were wrong and that they had been building higher brace bows since the beginning (when you were on staff, I might add). If that offends you or makes you think I'm calling you a liar, then that is your perogative, but I think you are being overly defensive and rash.

JeffB

Edited by - JeffB on 11/15/2002 19:23:02

Edited by - JeffB on 11/15/2002 19:23:57