thanx guys.....i guess they are probably a little behind our deer...but sometimesour deer keep their antlers late too....the one in velvet stumps me......it was a smaller bull...and it was shedding the velvet when i seen it....ill drive by next time im out that way....neat just to see them.....i figured he probably sold the antlers.....he is in it for the money....and some are ready to be hunted he just hasnt found anyone with enough land to release them to be hunted or whatever he wants to do...thanx guys i was just wondering