thanks for all the help guys, yeah my length is real long and i dont need tocroo my neck really to touch the end of my nose. Tonight bad stuff happened, it was 14 degrees here in jerseyand i was forced to wear aot of gear... too much in fact. I drew back on a 130 class 8 point and my kisser button and usual knock point was being blocked my the collar of my jacket, causing me to miss the shot..........