I just tried the remington primers without powder. I just snapped them. I used them first and sparks came out of the gaps on the breakdown muzzleloader I have. I also saw alot of spark coming from the barrel. There was residue everywhere just from the primer. I then fired the winchester and did not get sparks from the barrel end or sparks out of the gaps from the barrel and breach front. There wasnt as much residue either. I had cleaned the whole area around the breach, nipple , and breach face before I fired it so I could compare. I'll try with some of my other rifles to see how they fair with them. I have a cva thunderbolt magnum .45, thompson center firehawk .54, and a Brutus 94 made by Pedersoli in .50 which I heard was made for Kahnke. Ill post my results. Thanks for all you input guys.