I use a Mossberg 500 12 ga with a cantilever barrel and a red dot sight. It has always been more then enough for me. I normally keep my shots to about 70 yards or so max. If a deer is 100 yards out thats really pushing my comfort level. I went and shot Remington copper solids/Federals/and Wincheser BRI's yesterday, all 3 brands i was able to put in the middle of a paper plate. Im going to use the BRI's for hunting though.