yeah, I hear ya James, I would rather trail elk for you w/ handloaded 06, than 90% of the Joes out there w/ factory loads in a 300win. mag[]. Did you ever get my PM with my questions about the various 6.5mm's and 7mm's. Also could a 280rem be loaded light to start w/ until the kid gets a bit bigger? If so he may never need to go any bigger.