mossymike, I have been trying to make a total switch to carbons for many years but alas, I always come back to my trusty alums. My latest try is with Easton epics. They are supposed to be .005 run out but with my straightener, I found not one more than .002 run out. I was getting good speed but my groups were eratic. When I do EVERYTHING right, they shoot great but when I wander so do my groups. The other day was a really BAD day so I took some old 2117 and tuned them to a bullet hole like my carbons and bingo. They were grouping better than they should have due to my punch, pull, pluck. I just can't get a carbon to be as forgiving as a little heavier alum. This is just me as others can shoot the lights out with them.