Thanks LBR, I didnt order the Grizstics, to much money for six arrows. I could lose that many in 1 day . In sted i ordered Eastons and a Bitzen vise left helical clamp. Once I get my shooting dieled in I hope to start shooting wood, I havent had much time to shoot, been working lots of side jobs and after a 12hr shift of painting my arms are not up to shooting any sticks. Hoping to get out on a 3d course and realy lose some arrows.