logo
 

Go Back   HuntingNet.com Forums > Firearms Forum > Firearm Review Forum

Firearm Review Forum Rifles, shotguns, blackpowder, pistols, etc... read the latest reviews of hot new firearms here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-14-2011, 07:30 AM   #1
Giant Nontypical
 
bronko22000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Eastern PA
Posts: 7,861
Default S&W M&P40c review

Picked up a new M&P40C yesterday. I got the model with the thumb safety and without the magazine disabling feature. First let me say the pistol fits me very well with the medium backstrap. Better than the Glock 27. After a thorough cleaning last night, I took it out today. I started at 12 yds offhand. To say that I was impressed with the first 3 shots in virtually the same hole at the 3 O'clock position about 1/2" right of center would be an understatement. Especially for a compact. I continued to empty the first mag and clustered all the bullets in a fist sized group from center to just right of center.
I moved back to 25 yds and set up the bench and sand bags.
At this point, it is evident that the pistol is sighted for close in work. At the 25 yd line the pistol printed about 4" high but still had good accuracy. A 10 rounds produced about a 3-4" group.
The pistol functioned perfectly without any jams.
The only minor event was that while shooting a string of shots from the standing position the white dot on the front sight flew completely off. (These 3 dot sights by the way have the most brilliant white dots I have ever seen.) I have an email into S&W to see if they can send me some of this paint to re-apply it to the sight.
All in all, I am pleased with this little pistol and will enjoy carrying it on my person. I give it a 4.75 stars.
__________________
PLEASE NOTE THAT DUE TO THE RISING COST IN AMMO PRICES I WILL NO LONGER BE FIRING A WARNING SHOT.
I just read that humans share 55% of their DNA with banana trees. So if you call someone a banana head - you're half right!

I'm not as good as I'm gonna get - but I'm better than I used to be.
"Life without God is like an unsharpened pencil - it has no point."

bronko22000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2011, 07:03 PM   #2
Typical Buck
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 608
Default

I do not like the QC at S&W. It seems the past few years QC has not been good for S&W. They even had problems with an I-Bolt rifle they had sent a writer for review. I have read several unfavorable reviews of the I-Bolt. IMO, TC firearms has gone down hill since S&W bought them out.

If you are going to repaint the front sight, have you thought about using a glow in the dark paint? I prefer a nightsight for the front sight only. If you use this paint on the rear sight, you may want to put on a much smaller area in the center of the rear sight. I prefer the front sight to be brighter and more dominant than the rear sight - especially for nighsights.
country1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2011, 02:37 PM   #3
Giant Nontypical
 
bronko22000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Eastern PA
Posts: 7,861
Default

Country I haven't noticed any deteriation in quality at S&W. Maybe they are having a bit of trouble with their I bolts. But I purchased a M&P 15-22 about a month ago and I have not had any problems. In fact, I've had so much fun with this little rifle. The most fun in a long time. And this pistol is exactly what I was looking for. Its small, accurate and appears to be reliable. I think S&W's M&P line gets a bit more attention in the quality area.
__________________
PLEASE NOTE THAT DUE TO THE RISING COST IN AMMO PRICES I WILL NO LONGER BE FIRING A WARNING SHOT.
I just read that humans share 55% of their DNA with banana trees. So if you call someone a banana head - you're half right!

I'm not as good as I'm gonna get - but I'm better than I used to be.
"Life without God is like an unsharpened pencil - it has no point."

bronko22000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2011, 03:16 PM   #4
Typical Buck
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 608
Default

I am glad you like your S&W. When talking S&W quality, I am comparing the quality of the past few years with the quality of S&W 15 to 20 years ago. There have been recalls on several S&W products in the past few years for guns not to spec that should have never left the factory. At least one recall included improper headspacing which can be very dangerous.
country1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2011, 05:47 PM   #5
Giant Nontypical
 
bronko22000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Eastern PA
Posts: 7,861
Default

Well to each their own I guess. We all have our opinions. I always had S&Ws. I even have an old 29 with 8 3/8" bbl with the recessed cylinders that I got back in '69 and still looks brand new. Like I said, they may have trouble with their I Bolts but then again, long guns haven't been S&W forte. I'm sure they will work out the problems and get them fixed. Not sure how old you are but, if you remember, a while back they manufactured (or put their name on) bolt action rifles and pump shotguns. Neither of these faired too well either. But you can't doubt their reputation for a quality handgun.
__________________
PLEASE NOTE THAT DUE TO THE RISING COST IN AMMO PRICES I WILL NO LONGER BE FIRING A WARNING SHOT.
I just read that humans share 55% of their DNA with banana trees. So if you call someone a banana head - you're half right!

I'm not as good as I'm gonna get - but I'm better than I used to be.
"Life without God is like an unsharpened pencil - it has no point."

bronko22000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2011, 06:36 PM   #6
Typical Buck
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 608
Default

Yes, there was a recall on the I-Bolt rifle.
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/w...8_757978_image

The more recent recalls I was referring to are recalls on handguns. The headspacing recall was for a handgun - Model 22A - which was recalled in 2009. Again, headspacing is critical for firearms.
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/w...8_757978_image

S&W also had reported problems of internal parts breaking on certain handgun models, and the M&P full size is one I know people have claimed problems. Certain gun dealers would only get M&P's through a distributor (easier to deal with than the manufacturer) that offered a lifetime warranty due to claims of internal components failing. I know a person who purchased a handgun from the S&W custom shop the last few years that was returned more than once for repair. The two recalls listed above pose significant potential for injury or death and is why it appears the QC at S&W appears to be lacking. This is why you always have the muzzle pointed in a safe direction at all times - especially when loading and unloading.
country1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2011, 07:15 PM   #7
Typical Buck
 
Sfury's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 970
Default

As I've been looking at handguns I've come across several bad reviews/reports of S&W pistols specifically. Not all of them, but enough of them where I would purchase other manufacturers pistols first at this time.

Their revolvers on the other hand don't seem to have any bad comments aside from not handling the hotter loads that Rugers can over a large number of rounds.

As with anything, you just need to do the homework before buying any gun first, and then make an informed purchase. Let's face it, all of the major manufacturers have had their ups and downs over the years. S&W still makes a lot of quality guns, and as long as they continue to respond and improve their overall QC for some of their product lines, then they will re-take the any market-share they have lost.
Sfury is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2011, 08:52 PM   #8
Typical Buck
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 588
Default

I'm surprised the dot fell off. I scraped the paint out on the 40C I had and tried some glow paint in the hole. I didn't like the glow paint so I bought the brightest white model paint I could find and used a toothpick to drop a bit in the hole. The factory paint was hard to get out. The 3 white dots was too much for me. I had ended up blacking out the two rear dots. I painted them white again when I sold it. Good luck with your new gun.
__________________
Cajun
Colorado Cajun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2011, 03:50 AM   #9
Fork Horn
 
rifle_man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Nevada
Posts: 403
Default

The Dark Side of Smith & Wesson
By Chuck Hawks

AUTHOR'S PREFACE
I've never had any particular desire to do an article about the dark side of Smith & Wesson, but it's time someone in the outdoor media called a spade a spade, so to speak, rather than sugar-coat it as a "manual digging implement." I'm sure that I will be accused of all sorts of bias after speaking out in this article, but the fact is that I have no personal motive, nor do I stand to profit in any way, from an S&W hit piece. Quite the contrary, as I will undoubtedly alienate some readers and a large potential advertiser.
Frankly, I don't like to write negative reviews, which is why I have usually declined to review Smith & Wesson products. However, too many readers have written asking
why I haven't reviewed S&W firearms, or asking if I recommend various S&W models. Guns and Shooting Online readers expect, and deserve, the truth--or at least an honest opinion. So here goes . . ..
Of all the big American firearms manufacturers, Smith & Wesson is--in my opinion--the most deserving of censure. Certainly not because they make guns, nor are their products (always) unsafe when used as directed. However, Smith & Wesson's corporate actions over the decades of their existence have often been questionable and their advertising misleading, at best. (You could say that they flat-out lie and get no argument from me.)
The recent S&W I-Bolt rifle is one example of S&W "shading" the truth in their promotions. The "I" in "I-Bolt" is supposed to stand for "innovation," an assertion so boldly false as to be almost breath taking. The truth is that this rifle is almost completely deritive. It is a knock-off of the venerable Remington Model 700 action, with a few ideas stolen from other manufacturers tacked-on. Almost nothing about this rifle is actually innovative. Indeed, it is notable only for taking cost and quality reducing shortcuts to a new level in American rifle making.

This is a company whose professional conduct, as well as their product quality, has far too often failed to meet acceptable standards. Example: I once inspected a shipment of Smith & Wesson .22 Masterpiece target revolvers sent to the sporting goods department of a large mass merchandiser. Those half dozen revolvers were so poorly made that the gap between cylinder face and forcing cone varied widely as the cylinder was turned. At one position or another the face of the cylinder would actually drag against the forcing cone. One or two of those revolvers were so far out of spec that the cylinder could not be rotated all the way around. One such gun I could understand somehow slipping by quality control, but a whole shipment so poorly made that even a cursory inspection would have revealed the problem? Obviously there was no quality control inspection before those new revolvers were shipped.
Example: On another occasion a friend and I inspected perhaps a dozen newly arrived S&W revolvers at a gun shop and found large gaps between the cylinder crane and frame in all of them. On the same guns the cylinder ratchet notches were so poorly machined that no two were identical; it looked like a drunken monkey had done the work. Again, a single defective revolver would be understandable--mistakes happen--but a whole shipment of lemons is impossible to explain as an isolated mistake.
Example: I purchased a brand new Chief's Special .38 Special revolver. At the time of purchase the store clerk gave me a box of Smith & Wesson brand .38 Special factory loaded cartridges. (In those days S&W marketed ammunition under their brand name.) After firing no more than half of that first box of ammunition, I noticed that all 5 chambers of the cylinder had developed a slight bulge. Presumably it had not been properly heat-treated. Thank goodness I noticed the problem before the revolver blew-up in my hand.
Example: A Guns and Shooting Online staff member purchased a brand new S&W 22/32 Kit Gun whose rear sight could not be adjusted far enough laterally to put bullets into the target at 25 yards. Upon close examination with a straight edge we found that this revolver's frame was actually machined in a slight curve. Clearly no one had test fired this revolver at the factory.
Example: Another Guns and Shooting Online staff member purchased a new S&W Model 41 target pistol. It has never shot particularly tight groups, even after having been rebarreled (at the owner's expense!). In addition, it regularly malfunctions. He has put over twice the pistol's (considerable) original cost into it trying, with marginal success, to correct its faults. You can believe that next time he will buy a Ruger, Browning, or High Standard target pistol.
Such examples are far too numerous and widespread. Design, quality and quality control problems have been endemic to Smith and Wesson firearms for decades.
Years ago, many customers complained that the .44 caliber "N" frame revolver was too heavy and bulky for the .357 Magnum cartridge. (That is the frame size on which Smith & Wesson originally built their .357 Mag. revolvers.) So, they started building .357 revolvers on their smaller "K" .38 Special frame. These revolvers quickly developed a reputation for vicious recoil and also for shaking themselves apart. Smith's "solution" was to recommend practicing with .38 Special ammunition and reserving .357 Magnum cartridges only for "duty" purposes to extend the life of their revolvers! Ahem, doesn't that sound like a tacit admission of a fundamental problem in a Magnum revolver?
Smith & Wesson finally addressed their .357 Magnum problem by introducing the "L" revolver frame. Smith L-frame revolvers are the same size as a Colt Python. L-frame revolvers will--surprise, surprise--fit perfectly in holsters formed for the Python. They even have the Colt full-length barrel under lug and a rib on top. This is because Smith simply copied the Colt Python's frame size and styling clues, which is only one of many examples where S&W has simply stolen someone else's good idea. Does the Sigma pistol come to mind? (Glock sued 'em over that one.) Or their cheesy High Standard .22 clones? Even their famous Chief's Special revolver originated as a lower cost knock-off of the Colt Detective Special .38 snubby.
S&W built the Chief's Special on their existing .32 caliber "J" frame. That frame was actually too small for the .38 Special cartridge, but rather than introduce a new, properly sized frame, S&W reduced the cylinder capacity to 5 cartridges. The resulting revolver was so weak that for decades the use of .38 Special High Speed (and later +P) cartridges was prohibited. Modern metallurgy and heat treating has supposedly cured the problem--if you trust Smith & Wesson's advertising.
S&W has been ripping off other companies' products, especially Colt's, for over 150 years and the leopard hasn't changed his spots. The current management is following in the footsteps of their predecessors, as evidenced by the recent introduction of their "new" 1911 auto pistol. Not only are they copying the famous Colt/Browning pistol, they aren't even making their knock-off themselves; it is assembled largely from after market parts.
Smith & Wesson is not a tiny shop assembling these pistols individually. They are the largest handgun maker in the world! Have they no pride? (A rhetorical questions, since they obviously don't.)
S&W is a huge print advertiser and that has made them a "holy cow," insulated by the press from the consequences of their actions. Or, in the case of Smith & Wesson's sell out to the virulently anti-gun Clinton Administration (creating what some called "Clinton & Wesson"), forgiven as soon as they (again!) changed their management team.
That unholy deal was a betrayal of the entire industry and every gun owning U.S. citizen. It was widely condemned by other gun manufacturers. A press release from the National Shooting Sports Foundation said that the agreement "violates trust for selfish ends." It was neatly summed-up by Elizabeth Saunders, CEO of American Derringer, who said: "In all the years I have been in business, I have never seen anything so blatantly un-American as that agreement. No reasonable business person could possibly sign this thing." Smith & Wesson deserved, and got, a grass-roots boycott of their products for selling out the other gun makers, their own dealers and all American gun owners.
I've lost count of how many times the S&W management team has changed during my lifetime, every time promising that things would improve. However, the basic company policy of ignoring the intellectual property rights of others and building cheaper knock-off's of other people's successful products has never varied. In addition, their quality control has remained in the tank for decades. Heck, the company was founded on the basis of someone else's patent. (The reason that S&W cylinders have always rotated "backward" [out of the frame] is simply to create an obvious difference from the Colt revolver mechanism.)
S&W has gotten a pass from the big outdoor media since the 1950's. The legendary unreliability of Smith & Wesson's double-action auto pistols was widely known within the industry, but seldom mentioned in print by the outdoor press. (American Handgunner being the sole exception that comes to mind.) A good example of the "bye" that S&W has always gotten from the outdoor media is the fact that most shooters don't even know about the short cuts, rip-offs and problems cited in this article.
As I write these words, S&W is busy producing their knock-offs of Glock, High Standard and Colt/Browning designs, plus Walther PPK type pistols by agreement with the German parent company. The latter, by the way, have all recently been recalled as defective and unsafe. This recall applies to all Walther PPK and PPK/S pistols manufactured by Smith & Wesson from March 21, 2002, until February 3, 2009. That's seven years of production! Think that maybe it took S&W's quality control a smigeon too long to find, or at least admit, that there was a problem? Enough is enough; Smith & Wesson's history of quality control problems and as a corporate copycat is too long, and too nauseating, to delve into further. Anyway, you've got the picture.
__________________
Join the NRA
rifle_man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2011, 07:22 AM   #10
Typical Buck
 
Sfury's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 970
Default

Reading that copied article makes me realize one thing. Chuck Hawks does not understand how mass production works. That by no means excuses S&W for potentially selling unchecked product that would be dangerous to use.

The article also shows no direct information to back up the author's claims. Probably done to avoid lawsuit, but even so, without more information some of the examples are hearsay at this time.

Although, the problems reported here follow some of the issues that have been reported by others. There is no doubt that S&W did have some QC issues at one point. I'm not certain as to what products, during what time frame, but the recall lends some credence as to some of the information that is missing.

Now, that also doesn't go along with some of the products they sell being reviewed by many different groups and performing flawlessly either. I believe S&W reached the Toyota stage where they got greedy and made some poor choices. Now they are (apparently) trying to go back to what made them a success.
Sfury is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

 

All times are GMT -8. The time now is 10:45 AM.