well i got it back!
 

i got my soil sample results back, but have no freakin clue what the hell it means...it was my ph is 5.1... i think thats pretty good for no lime added yet.. does that mean im not gonna have to add a bunch of lime???? thanks for the info guys..

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MdDave,
5.1 is very acidic !!! Depending on what you are going to plant, you probably will need tons of lime. What size is your food plot ?? A good reference is one acre is roughly the size of a pro football field. If your food plot is one acre you will probably need 2.5 to 3 tons of lime to fix your PH.

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MdDave, I agree with Haystack, 5.1 is acidic. I would not try to grow alfalfa or clover this year. Small grains would be best, corn/soybeans would probably do OK as a food plot. I think 2-3 tons/acre of lime is even on the light side for alfalfa/clover. Didn't the lab give you a lime recommendation? If not, what is the organic matter?

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Where did you get it done at?

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well hell,,, i thought it was at least close to 7 it would be good... the plot was prolly gonna be half an acre.. i really havent measured it out yet.. it says i need the calcium carbonate equivalency(what ever that is) off the bag to figure out how much lime is needed... i used biologic...sent them my sample...if someone was real curious i could email the file that was sent to me..

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http://www.whitetailinstitute.com/products/extreme/

heres what im thinkin about

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Dave,
A half acre wont be to hard or expensive to fix. As stated prior, depends what you planing on growing.
You can spread a half acre by hand but that is the cut off point for me anything more you will need a custom lime spreader. There are many kinds of bagged lime. It sounds like you need ag-lime. If you know of a fertilizer company, maybe you can get a truck load of bulk or not bagged from them, it will be cheaper that way. Believe it or not a PH of 5.1 is about 20 times more acidic than a PH of 7. To a lot of plants like clover and alfalfa it is toxic.
It is not uncommon to have acidic ground even lower than 5.

Hope that helps.

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Dave,
I didnt see what you had in mind till I sent you that last reply. I have never tried that, but it will probably work this spring OK if you get the lime put on as soon as possible. It takes lime a while to work its magic but I believe that stuff can take it. I did see clover in it though. It is still your best bet for this year.

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Like everyone said 5.1 is quite acidic. Haystack is on the right track except every pointon the pH Scaleis 10 times less or more acidic than the previous/next number.

For Example-

5.0pH is 10 times more acidic than 6.0pH and 5.0 pH is 100times more acidic than 7.0pH

(at least your pH wasn't 4.1!)

The soil test should have have told you How many units of Calcium Carbonate. Rest assured -its a lot. In fact most places suggest to not try to correct the pH all in one year - if its a serious amount.Some of my plots in the low 5's were suggested 8 tons/acreAg Lime.

3-4 tons/acre might only get you up close to 6.0ph (Depends on the Buffer - Light soils pH correct easier (less lime) than Heavy Soils (more lime) - If you soil is clay-like - clumps, holds moisture well, - you'll probably want to spread it out over two or more years. If its sand like - you can probably correct it with One Application).

Good luck -
FH

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farm hunter,
I've got to say you have a good point. But actually we are both right. A 5.1 is 28% more acidic than a 7.1. I'm certainly no chemist and I crave all the information I can get. But I think the point you are trying to make is how difficult it is to correct that low of a PH. The soil will need more time to respond to a 5.1 versus a 6.1..it all depends on the soil composition. Will clover come up and grow at a 5.1 ? My answer is yes, but it will not live long or reach its full potential. I believe lime is worth all the time and money not only for farm fields but food plots especially, for the more calcium in the plants, the more the deer intake, resulting in much better antler size. Feel free to correct me in any way, thats how we learn. Now watch Soilman straiten us both out. With a name like Soilman, the guy has got to know what he's talking about. :eek:

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Not much straightening out needed. You guys are very close. Lime is not an instant fix. It will take at least 1-2 years to fully react and neutralize the pH. Haystack is right, you need to get it on as soon as possible, and work it in well. I suggested a corn/oat/soybean in 09 to give the lime a chance to react this year. Next year you should have better luck with a perennial like clover. It will have a tough time overwintering with a low pH. The pH of the soil affects how available soil nutrients are, and different plants need soil nutrients in different amounts. The amount of lime needed is really dependent on the organic matter of the soil. Organic matter has a lot of reserved acidity to react with lime. Dark black soil needs a lot of lime, light colored sand can be neutralized with very little lime. That is why I asked about the organic matter. MdDave,what color(black, brown, white, red) is your soil if they did not give you a percent organic matter? If you know the soil name, even better. For the record, pH = -log[H+].

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no they did not give me an organic matter... the color of the dirt isnt real dark.. they did list the nutrients in the dirt.

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Since your soil sounds "average," the lime rec is probably OK. CCE is a measure of how much acid neutralizing ability the lime has. Yes, different suppliers have different quality of lime, so you will need to read the bag. I am very glad you didn't say you had dark black soil, it would have made your lime rec useless and your lime bill sky high! Out of curiosity, what are your P and K values. Are they in ppm or lbs/A?

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P is 40 lb/acre, k is 156 lb/acre

i know what they read but dont know what it means for my soil...

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The P is good. K ison the low side for perennials (OK for soybeans/corn). The good part is, more P and K will become available as the lime raises the pH. Those numbers are not bad, so you will be able to have good results by adding reasonable amounts of fertilizer. Once you decide on a crop for 09, fertilizer choice and timing will be more clear.

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http://www.whitetailinstitute.com/products/extreme/

whats your opinion on this soilman?

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"while Extreme can withstand lower pH levels than other perennial food plots, it performs even better at levels from 6.0 to 6.5."

I think it would be fine next year. This year, I would plant an annual crop.I am not saying it can't work, but I do think it will work better in 2010. Let the lime work, and control your weeds in anticipation of planting this next year. My 2 cents worth on it.

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Sounds like your on the right track. Don't get sidelined by Extreme. Like soilman said - it probably cannot hurt to plant it this year - because you need to work on that soil anyhow- but don't get sucked in to thinking that Extreme compares to a good clover plot -its not even close in nutrition, or edible biomass. Planted side by side - the deer will skip the dandelions. These plots are designed for guys that don't want, don't care, or don't have the means to get their soils up to speed.

We've found the more you work the soil, especially early on - the better. You incorporate organic matter into the soil, and each years turned over crop - and it helps put the right nutrients back into the root zone. A soil doesn't have to be 7.0 to be productive...... something that sometimes gets overlooked. If you can get over 6.0 and approach 6.5pH - most of your deer plots will do great.

FH

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how bout turnips..whats the ground gotta be like for them to be planted...

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MdDave,
Turnips, are not hard to please. They will grow almost anywhere. But do deer like them ? In my area not at all. Yet 20 miles away they love them. The reason is I live in a agricultural area, and the deer have a large variety of plants to chose from, kinda spoiled. 20 miles away there is nothing but woods and mountains and those deer can not afford to be finicky. Turnips can be planted in the spring time but they dont like high temperatures, by the 1st of July, they will be done for. But planted in August, they will be maturing in cooler weather and take light frost well also.

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Turnips would be OK, but I think they are more of a winter food. We planted some in September, after the sweetcorn was finished 2 years ago. The neighbor said he was watching 40-50 deer dig through the snow to get at the green tops. You could double crop soybeans/sweetcorn/oats in the summer, and turnips in the fall. It works well for us in the frozen north, and helps with weed control.

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Turnips are cheap- and a good plot for a late summer planting - on a spot that you want to put to corn or soybeans the next year.
In our program - the deer have ample food in the summer/fall and ignore the turnips (and brassicas) until Jan/Feb. Right now, our deer are pawing through 2ft of snow to get to turnips. They eat everything green - and nibble into the bulb - but usually leave them 3/4 whole. Its winter food for us, same as soilman, and a good field transition from Summer sod, to easily planted beans or corn in the Spring.

For us, turnips is a plot that serves a purpose - but its not a primary plot -

January Pictures - This plot was completely ignored October, November & December.





FH

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this is turnin into a pain in the butt.. im havin a hell of a time tryin to find lime..yeah sure i can get find 50 pd bags.. but at 7.69-8.00 a bag @ 40 bags.. sheww thats a ALOT of $$$$... i can not find one place that sells it in bulk!! i even called a stone quarry.. women said nope..im thinkin if i knew someone there i could get some...

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Probably best to focus on plants that can tolerate acidic ground and just purchase what lime you can afford now.
That would be allot of lime to spread at one time so just extend that out a bit, do it in increments till you achieve soil that is ready for clover. My suggestion would be oats or soybeans this year. Do you live in a agricultural area ?

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its somewhat an agrcultral area.. i wanna talk to a couple more people round town maybe theres somewhere im missin... oats an soybeans.. what time a year plant are they?

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There is bound to be a place that you can find bulk lime. Landscapers might know, feed stores etc. Oats are planted as soon as the ground can be worked in your area. Soybeans should be planted after all danger of frost is over, in your area that could 1st of may. Birdsfoot Trefoil is another plant similar to clover/alfalfa that can tolerate a soil PH of 5.5. Just a thought..

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birdsfoot trefoil huh.. never heard of such a thing.. i bet me tryin to find that would be like tryin to find bulk lime.. lol..... called all the local feed stores jus 50 pd bags.. im still lookin.

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I have got a good friend that lives in Anne Arundel county, if you are near there, he can help you greatly.

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You need to find yourself a grain elevator.

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Try Southern States Cooperative.. MDdave type that in and you can find the nearest one. They will have what you are looking for..

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MDdave,
Check out this site for birdsfoot trefoil and many other options for your plot.
http://www.seedland.com/mm5/merchant..._Code=Wildlife.

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southern states was the first place i called.. they told me they dont sell it in bulk????

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http://www.farmerscoop.com/ These guys are in Frederick and they do have bulk.