Old does or young does, what do you shoot?
 

This question started getting hit upon in another post but deserves it's own thread.

On my property I pass on all older does and let them continue breeding. Young does are a different story and I'll shoot almost all of them that come by. The buck to doe ration in my area is off kilter a bit and needs to be brought in line so I feel no guilt taking 8 young does with bow as I did last year. I feel that they taste better and aren't very good breeders to begin with. I read somewhere a couple years ago that for every year a doe is old her fawn mortality drops in half. That means a 2 year old doe looses half the fawns a year old doe will and a 3 or 4 year old doe won't loose very many at all. Everything I've seen in the field has backed me up, I've yet to see an experienced older doe loose a fawn even if they have twins. I also don't like orphaning young deer right before winter. If you take their mama out the fawns might not make it to spring.
Am I doing more harm than good? Should I let the younger ones pass and start shooting the older big mama's? Or should I keep eating deer veal?

RE: Old does or young does, what do you shoot?
 

i'd take the older does, they dont have that much longer to live to begin with, and the younger does can grow up and breed longer than the older doe will.

RE: Old does or young does, what do you shoot?
 

Kill the old does they run your little bucks off how much land do you have? If you dont have like at least 1500 acres then you are gonna have trouble with management. Your buck to doe ratio is messed up because your letting the old does walk and in turn keep the young does around and run the young bucks off. I kill all the old does and young does I killed a doe and her two 1 year old does at one time. but now after doing this for 5 years I have far more bucks around, I have three that I have watched each year for 3 years this year I am going to kill the bigger of the 3 he is in the pic on the left.

http://huntchristiancreek.com///DC

RE: Old does or young does, what do you shoot?
 

It all depends what your goal is, you said that your buck to doe ratio is a little out of whack. do you mean more bucks are on your land or more does? I assume that you have more does to bucks, but maybe i'm wrong. In that case I would shoot every old mature doe that walked by. The main reason is, they are the ones that produce the most fawns. By eliminating many of the old does, you have young does left that usually only produce one fawn a year. As you can see by shooting big mature does, it will eventually leave you with a herd that only produces one fawn a year instead of two and possibly three. This means, with less fawns a year, your buck to doe ratio will improve, and overall your hunting. I have seen it work in a place I currently hunt that is strictly Qdm managed. I barely rarely see a doe having twins, and the overall buck to do ratio is the closet to 1:1 that i have ever seen. Goodluck in whatever you do ;) And as Moose75 has said, if you orphan a button buck by shooting its mom, that buck is most likely to call that place home the rest his life. Otherwise the big mature does, will run their young bucks away

RE: Old does or young does, what do you shoot?
 

This is what we practice. We have @4500 acres. We are on management program and get 35-50 doe tags yearly. What we were told by the state game managers is that the old does need to be allowed to walk to maintain quality breeding stock. They say a young doe will eat more browse and not be quality breeding stock. We were advised to shoot as many yearling does as we could. Not sure if this is property specific but this came from state wildlife biologists. The only problem with harvesting that young is being sure it's not a "button buck." It does seem to be working well for us.

RE: Old does or young does, what do you shoot?
 

At a QDMA meeting in Troy, Al. I asked the question if an old doe and two fawn does walked out in the food plot which to shoot. They said to shoot the old doe and then try and shoot both fawn does.

RE: Old does or young does, what do you shoot?
 

Old ones in wheelchairs.try for the ones with grey in the faces and no choppers

RE: Old does or young does, what do you shoot?
 

I shoot the biggest does in a bunch. More meat. We have way to many does of all sizes. I took eight mule deer does last fall. The young does will be old does someday.;)

RE: Old does or young does, what do you shoot?
 

shoot the "herd doe". the one that, no matter how long you sit frozen, will not look away from your position. wait her out and when she finally does look away or snort or run or what ever, kill her. I've been foiled more than once by this doe. There's one in every herd and i figure if i kill her i set the example for the rest of them to not watch me so closely...hehe

RE: Old does or young does, what do you shoot?
 

I'll take the older doe. Last year I had 4 of them come out - I picked out the biggest (oldest?) and harvested her.

RE: Old does or young does, what do you shoot?
 

I tend to shoot at the bigger does because I fear that smaller does are button bucks. Usually what I have come to find out is that the bigger the doe the older.

RE: Old does or young does, what do you shoot?
 

We also shoot the older does, because at 150 yds or so, at dusk, you might find out that "young doe" is a button buck...as you load him up...I have also read that the younger does that get bred late in the season usually drop a buck in spring....In NC our winters aren't that bad, if they are in the field eating corn...I wean them...by killing the largest....

RE: Old does or young does, what do you shoot?
 

It's easy to tell a young doe from an older one. The young ones always have a small juvenile looking face while the older ones have a longer nose. Plus if a doe is going to bust you, it's always going to be the older one. A young doe that's never seen a hunting season just hasn't figured it out yet. I've had them catch me up in a tree, stare for a few seconds, and then go about their buisness as if I wasn't there. Man that's just asking for an arrow in the chest.
So far I haven't taken out a button buck yet. I'm not sure I'd have a problem with it either. The nutrition in northwest Illinois is so good no buck has an excuse for being a button except poor genetics. Considering all the corn they eat even late birthed bucks should grow spikes.
I'm still going to shoot the young does; I like the way they taste and we have loads of them around here. The local farmers like me shooting them too, you'd be suprised how much they eat.

RE: Old does or young does, what do you shoot?
 

Corn doesn't help grow horn it grows fat.

RE: Old does or young does, what do you shoot?
 

Down here we only shoot mature does, we let all of the younger does pass. When you kill the older does you help to "stir" the genetic pot of the deer herd. Plus a doe contributes 50% to her fawns rack. And unlike bucks in which you can tell which ones have inferior antlers, you can not tell which does have good genes and which ones do not. So if your only allowing each doe to breed for a few years then you have a better chance of "culling" out the inferior does instead of allowing them to get old and pass on bad genetics to countless generations. In a perfect world we try to only take mature bucks (5 1/2+) and old does (4 1/2+). But unlike the bucks, the does can be pretty hard to age in the field, but you can usually tell a middle aged doe from a young one.

RE: Old does or young does, what do you shoot?
 

I'll take an older doe over a young one, if given the choice. but if it is a doe, and she presents a shot...well, she is going to get shot

RE: Old does or young does, what do you shoot?
 

Brown ones....

RE: Old does or young does, what do you shoot?
 

I agree with this 100 % . Older does lead the rest of the herd to safety and have learned from experience what is and isn't safe. The peril can come from Hunters ,Coyotes or Bears. I would think one would like this trait to be bred into younger deer. Only problem I see with shooting younger deer is inadvertently shooting button bucks or small spikes. That said I think an Old Dry Doe would be ok to shoot but how in the world do you tell one from a large fertile doe?

RE: Old does or young does, what do you shoot?
 

I can see your point but at the same time the reason you have loads of them is because you allow those old ones to keep producing more and more fawns every year.

RE: Old does or young does, what do you shoot?
 

to edit my own post...I do not shoot small deer. too many times I have mistaken a button buck for a doe. I will shoot full sized antlerless animals only in this respect.

RE: Old does or young does, what do you shoot?
 

I like to shoot bigger does just for more meat. But in some areas where i have a lot of tags I've shoot any doe as long as it isn't REAL small. Generally its with a bow so I know if it's a BB or not.

RE: Old does or young does, what do you shoot?
 

i read in an article that the young does have a better chance of producing bucks than the old does which mostly only have does.

RE: Old does or young does, what do you shoot?
 

shoot the younger ones, they're better eatin'. Two years ago I shot a doe that weighed a little over 90 pounds, that was a big doe!!!!!!

RE: Old does or young does, what do you shoot?
 

big does

RE: Old does or young does, what do you shoot?
 

I shoot the older does, the biggest doe i have shot was 180#, she had an ole hook nose she was so old, and an arthiritic front hock. If they have little ones, I try not to shoot them, esp if they have twins.

RE: Old does or young does, what do you shoot?
 

I've been deer hunting for one year and the only doe I've shot was a youngin'. Tasted good though.

But I have no idea about controlling herds and stuff...

RE: Old does or young does, what do you shoot?
 

90 pounds???? Around here that's a small dog.
I've seen some big heffer does out there and believe me they can get pretty darn big if given the chance.

I thought of another reason I like to shoot the little does; I don't have to drag them out. You can just fireman carry a small doe out of the woods if you don't mind a bit of blood on you. I've done it plenty of times. I prefer that to dragging a big deer through the thick stuff any day.

RE: Old does or young does, what do you shoot?
 

Bingo, Take the old matriarch does.... a younger one will take their place. Not to mention that the younger does will hopefully produce better fawns with less stress. Just a thought....:)

RE: Old does or young does, what do you shoot?
 

If you read any of the current books out on QDM, they all say to harvest the young does and let the "old gals" walk. I can positively tell you that the Alabama deer managemant folks say to harvest the young ones. That program works well on our property. :D

RE: Old does or young does, what do you shoot?
 

from another angle, shoot the old ones, they are the ones more likely to bust you...

RE: Old does or young does, what do you shoot?
 

I've never had the opportunity to "pick" a doe because 1- in my area there are very few doe tags and 2- When I've gotten a tag, I've allways wandered upon a single doe. But if the opportunity occured, I'd shoot the bigger one, just because all the smaller ones can "potentially" be button bucks.

RE: Old does or young does, what do you shoot?
 

i've never really seen any button bucks up in kentucky. the area that i hunt has plenty of nutrition and come to think of it i've never even seen a spike. everything has been forked or a basket rack. i've only killed one deer so far and it wasn't a doe so i can't really say how i do it, since i've never had the opportunity. but i would say whichever produced the first or best shot(usually yoiung does), or whichever one was trying to blow my cover(old doe).

RE: Old does or young does, what do you shoot?
 

the matriarch doe is first on my list, in the winter she drives the younger deer off food sources and she will drive the young bucks out of her territory, besides she would be the one that busted me, so when i get the chance i will kill her first.

RE: Old does or young does, what do you shoot?
 

Truk, Welcome to the board! Another one that will go for the matriarch doe...great minds think alike. lol ;)

RE: Old does or young does, what do you shoot?
 

i prefer the older does more meet i dont shoot many bucks but i luv deer meat i have my eye on a doe for this season already i get 3 this year

RE: Old does or young does, what do you shoot?
 

Shoot all the old mature animals and pass on all the young immature animals regarless of weather it is a buck or doe. Its a very simple concept, it really is..........

RE: Old does or young does, what do you shoot?
 

i was always told to take the young doe, because the old doe will breed 2 fawns next year ...... dunno how true but thats what i was told.

RE: Old does or young does, what do you shoot?
 

We have gotten 7 doe permits for the last several years but have never killed more than 1 or 2 each year. I decided this was the year to fill our tags. My brother only hunted a couple of times, my youngest son hunted hard but saw bucks instead of does, and I filled 5 of 7 permits (I have always been lucky). To answer the original question, any deer without "outdoor plumbing" is fair game for my QDM program. I am very selective with bucks, but doe management is more opportunity than selection. I am posting a picture of 3 does killed within a 2 hour morning hunt and only 2 shots were fired.

RE: Old does or young does, what do you shoot?
 

i prefer to shoot big does but if need be ill shoot a young un. Hey retrieverman how did u kill 3 deer with 2 shots? did u have a pass through on one that hit another one or what? Best of luck to everyone!

RE: Old does or young does, what do you shoot?
 

I waited until they lined up and shot high shoulder on the nearest and necked the second (neither even twitched). I was shooting my Knight Disc 50 cal with a 250 gr Barnes Expander (kind of like thowing an ashtray at them). I drug those two under my tree and waited for the third to come in about 30 minutes later. I use a camtracker to scout so I knew when they were coming.