How do you know who read your thread??..........Maybe a lot of people from outside the state read it who have no interest either way what happens here in NY.

You are VERY judgemental of others........and it shows throughout your posts. Just because someone thinks differently then you doesn't make them wrong


Sure there has


The whole point of M/L season is for people to be able to hunt and AVOID the orange army...........not only that how could you prove that a deer was shot with a M/L and not a shotgun???............people would just kill another deer with a slug and tag it with their M/L tag. BAD idea.



They do...........as long as they have a legal tag for it. You hold people at fault for hunting legally??


The hunters are only allowed to kill what the state gives them tags for. You cannot fault a hunter for legally taking a deer YOU don't think he should.


It is.........and too many does have been killed. We will feel the sting from this mess for years to come.


Those numbers are meaningless. You have no way of knowing the deer population dispersal within the "huntable" grounds of the state. I have over 200 deer within 1/2 mile of my home verified by aerial photo that can not be hunted..........does this mean there are too many deer in NY?? There are pockets of deer in NY that are very overpopulated.........and there are places that are very underpopulated. What the DEC has to figure out is that you cannot use the same herd management for ALL these areas. They are very different and need to be addressed differently from year to year.

Ask any hunter that has been in the woods over 25 years if they saw more deer back then or now??.........they used to run in packs of 20-30 as a common sight.......now if you see 3 it is rare.



There is your whole problem in a nutshell...........all you care about is bigger antlers. Why is it so hard for you to understand that not everyone shares your personal desires? I myself for example like big bucks as much as the next guy but I love hunting DEER. I don't want to sit in my stand for 2 weeks and see 1 deer if I am lucky. I (and many others) would like to see more deer. Did it ever occur to you that MORE deer would lead to bigger racked bucks also?? The more deer out there the more that will slip through the cracks and live another year. A big reason why guys shoot ANY buck they see is because they can't afford to pass him up because it could very well be the ONLY deer they see all year!! If they knew they would see more deer down the road then a lot more guys would be willing to let some walk IMO.

I shot a 4 ptr opening day at 7:15 am and didn't even think twice about it.............I killed the doe that was sniffing him 25 minutes later too.......I also killed a doe about 5 days later. Those were THE ONLY deer I saw all gun season and I hunted long and hard. No way I am passing those deer up........I had to work my balls off just to get those chances......Most guys I talk to rate this year as the worst they ever hunted. Thankfully I filled 4 tags and had a good year. Now in your eyes I had a BAD year.....I killed a 6 pt with my bow and a 4 pt with my gun and the 2 does.........if you had your way my harvest would have been cut in half. NO THANKS.

So because I didn't comment on you essay I should be ashamed? I have my own idea's and have let the DEC know what theuy are. I'll be at meetings too.

Try using a paragraph would ya!

I replied to and earlier post of yours and if I hadn't I wouldn't feel ashamed. Like Charlie, I will be sending my own letter, with what I feel is a REASONABLE outline for the season (in former posts in the NE forum) and will be attending the meeting in the Southern Tier. I don't think all your ideas are off base and can't fault you for expressing them.
As I have been saying, for any change to occur there will have to be some consesus among hunters (all hunters) on what should be done. If every tom, dick, & harry has their own thoughts and agendas based on their own small realm of experience and not on the big picture with some type of consideration for the biology and population dynamics of the herd and, as well as, what might be best for all hunters and the herd, nothing will get accomplished. The DEC will simply keep things the same or institute the proposed changes (some of which many hunters oppose). I am all for some change, but not all of the things being proposed.

atlas,

I think you were getting a little too literal on some of Kottens statements. I think he was on the right track with his poaching ideas and hunting as a privilege.

As for some of your other comments:

The DEC does try and control the population on a local scale - that's why we have DMUs (which are relatively small). Why do you think we were not issued any permits in 7M and why it is more difficult in some areas than others to get 1 or 2 permits. It would be impractical to try and reduce the size of the DMUs any moret than they are, whoever ther could always be room for adjustment, if/when needed, as the herd fluctuates.

Is it no deer or 3 deer??? Most people would consider 3 deer in a season quite a success and would assume that the hunting was good and deer pop. is good. Maybe the 3 deer were on private land?? Either way 3 deer is better than no deer.

20-30 deer in a group - do you really think that is a good thing?

I don't think more deer necessarily leads to bigger racked deer. Yes there may be a few extra big buck that make it, but the reason for healthy racked bucks is nutrition and genetics. If the herd is overpopulated, food sources become more scarse, therefore less for the deer to eat = poor nutrition = smaller antlers. That is why the landowners that shoot any buck that walks and shoots no doe is really shooting themselves in the foot (we have a few groups/individuals around here and many others that think this way). The doe will keep increasing the population and the deer will get smaller, smaller racked, and the local herd will be unhealthy overall.

The young hunter thing is a valid and important point. If you had one with you opening morning, they would be hooked for life. I personally hunted many years with my dad as a young kid (a few days a year). We saw few deer in those years and he didn't get a deer when i was with him until the year before I started hunting. Didn't make any difference to me (however I did want to see him get a deer in a big way). I am only 31 and times have changed drastically since I was a kid. I was brought up to want to hunt and enjoy the time spent in the woods. We had video games, but not like today. We wanted to hunt. Kids today don't and aren't being taught. Too bad really.

Here's an idea for all those that didn't see any deer. First and foremost they went nocturnal after the first few days. I just don't mean partly nocturnal, they were hunkered down big time. Like many, I/we saw little or no deer after the first few days. They were there, trust me. The snow makes it easy to tell. After a month or so, when muzzle started, they were absolutely everywhere (another reason to extend the ML season). The second thought I have about hunters that see no deer is that they very well may have been out 10 day or 20 or whatever, but those days were maybe only a few hours here or there and not "full" days. Just my opinion and isn't meant specifically towards anyone here. I know people that hunt only a lttle bit here and there and they will be the 1st ones to b*tch because there are no deer.

if you restrict the antler size to no less than 8 points, it will take a few years to see any deer that size but after that initial period you will see a lot more big bucks....there is a guy where i live that resticted his land (about 2000-2500 acres) to 8 and above and everyone wants to hunt it. There are more 10 pointers out there than you can shake a stick at. He is very strict and because of that he has a lot of trophy bucks

NYS, Offers QDM area's that anyone can hunt.Priviate landowners can micro manage their property and have very strict QDM as they see fit.If you get together with your neighbors and convince them that QDM is the best thing,that's great.

I see people saying that the DEC does a terrible job of controlling the deer herd,but you want them to oversee QDM, for the whole state?

I want to see a healthy herd. I walked our lease 260 acres when we had snow down one day during the season and cut four sets of tracks. This place is next to 15,000 acres of State land honesly didn't hear that many shots on opening day.Where I hunt in town there are deer everywhere.Both are within the same zone. I could have shot four doe and a small buck off the spot in town with out any effect on the herd. I wouldn't shoot a doe off the lease.

Let's face it he last few winters hurt many populations around the state and others are still doing great. The funny thing is this is occuring with in the same zones.

I really don't care if someone wants to shoot a 5 pt if it's the right thing for the area.I don't think the state will really do a good job of micro managing the area's I hunt. Not really into anymore goverment interfernce in my life either.

Treehunter, You should have seen the deer that a hunter on the next property would have had to pass on this year with your 8 pt rule. It was a 6 pt with 12 back tines and weighed around 150-155 dressed out. It ddin't have brow tines and would have scored in the 120's proably 3.5 yrs old too. You can't shoot that deer but a basket rack 2.5 yr old 8 pt is fair game. AR's isn' true QDM not at all.What's the plan for culling deer with less then desirable genes?

I really don't think we need herd reduction. Go look on the Northeast forum or some other sites that have alot of hunters from Pa and see the complaints that many people in Pa are having with HR.

I agreed with him on the poaching thing.......that's why I didn't say anything about that. Hunting is a privilege but he took it further to imply a responsibility of a hunter to manage the herd for bigger bucks........that is just laughable and again he is pushing his personal desires on everyone else with no regaurd for those that don't share his opinions.




I know what your saying........and I know the system. It just doesn't work. They wait until the deer are slaughtered down to almost nothing before they hold back permits. Every DMU I hunted this year was an ALL for first permits and 80-90% for second permits and I saw a grand total of 4 does all season........killed 2 of them. These are all the zones that people are reporting seeing few if any deer and yet the permits continue to fly. There are places in the state that have too many deer...........just not as many as the DEC hands out truck loads of permits for.


All 3 were on public access lands. I didn't say that MY year was unsuccessful.......I killed almost every deer I saw though. I was fortunate enough to see a few and thank goodness I was able to seal the deal. My dad saw nothing, my oldest brother saw 3 deer all year and he hunted pretty hard for archery and gun........my older brother took a doe with bow and a doe with gun. We consider ourselves VERY fortunate to have that many deer in a year when almost everyone we talk to is miserable.

Last year I could count on one hand how many deer I saw and I hunted over 40 days total.


YES.........but forget good or bad...........what does that tell you about the deer numbers?? There were supposedly way fewer deer that long ago and you needed 5 guys just to kill one doe. Now anyone can kill 5 does a year and supposedly there are way MORE deer out there..........yet you only see single deer hopping around. It's just not true........plain and simple.


Why isn't that good enough??

More bigger bucks slipping through the cracks AND more deer for guys who don't really care what a buck "scores"


I highly doubt we could ever reach overpopulated status that would cause those problems........not with thousands of hunters not even seeing deer. Maybe if we had more deer we would have more hunters []


yup



Here is the sad part.......the area I took my big buck a few years ago had 9 guys hunting there opening day. They saw ZERO deer. 9 guys!!......OPENING DAY!!......ZERO!! They hunted for days and saw nothing......it finally snowed and they went back and found one set of tracks all day. WTF???

I have spoken to a lot of guys that saw NOTHING on opening day............anyone can get skunked any day but when you sit all day on opening day with thousands of guys pushing around in the woods and you see nothing...........that's not good. The no tracks thing is worse.


I hunted 5 out of the 7 days of ML season and saw no deer. I don't know anyone that I have spoken to that even saw a deer during ML season.


Agreed........I know plenty of guys that bitch after not seeing a deer by 8 o'clock their first day out. These are not the guys I am reffering to.

You want to help your deer population,start coyote hunting!!