RE: Velocity verses Energy. (the debate)
 

If one were to handload for the .243 the 107 gr sierra Kicks @$$
Sectional density 2.59
BC .527
In comparison the .30 caliber in 165 gr.
sectional density .248
BC .404

RE: Velocity verses Energy. (the debate)
 

I was reading a thread on another forum on hunting in Africa. It said that many professional hunters use what is called a TKO, Taylor Knock Out formula for rating cartriges for large and dangerous game.

bullet diameter X bullet weight X velocity / 7000 = TKO rating.

Metro

RE: Velocity verses Energy. (the debate)
 

This debate is kind of pointless, since energy is derived from velocity. Kinetic Energy = (1/2)(mass)(velocity)^2. Therefor without velocity you have no energy. These two subjects are directly related, so it is hard to say which does what. When velocity increases so does energy.

RE: Velocity verses Energy. (the debate)
 

Zrex, hate to say it but when you crunch the numbers the .243 looks kinda girly according to the TKO formula and I would certainly listen to hunters that are taking down Cape buffalo, Elephants and Lions.

Metro

RE: Velocity verses Energy. (the debate)
 

Jeez when did I ever say it was an elephant gun. You guys are getting way off topic.

RE: Velocity verses Energy. (the debate)
 

Double the weight of a bullet and it's energy doubles, double its velocity and its energy quadruples.

RE: Velocity verses Energy. (the debate)
 

PS those are made up equasions that wont hold water. Means nothing.
(Copied and pasted.)


(The basics of terminal performance, wounding effects and wounding effectiveness are pretty easy for ordinary people to understand, and this creates a conflict of interest for some gun-writers because there really isn't much to write about.

Instead of sticking to simple facts these particular authors would rather delude you with paragraph after paragraph of mystical concepts such as "energy transfer," "neural shock," "Fuller Index," "one-shot stopping power," "Strasbourg Tests," and "street results." Although this stuff makes for interesting and entertaining reading, it's really nothing more than a bunch of sophisticated junk-science they've invented to ensure they have plenty to write about)

RE: Velocity verses Energy. (the debate)
 

I said I would listen to the advice of someone who is taking down an elephant when trying to judge a cartridge. So, am I to infer that you are saying the TKO is a load of elephant dung?? Just asking as I am no ballistics expert.

Metro

RE: Velocity verses Energy. (the debate)
 

There is no such thing as knock down power.

Heres some more copying and pasting.


A bullet simply cannot knock a man down. If it had the energy to do so, then equal energy would be applied against the shooter and he too would be knocked down. This is simple physics, and has been known for hundreds of years. The amount of energy deposited in the body by a bullet is approximately equivalent to being hit with a baseball. Tissue damage is the only physical link to incapacitation.



Knockdown Power
Muzzle energy impresses humans, but it's not what kills animals.
by David E. Petzal


Back in the late I95Os, my illustrious predecessor Warren Page wrote an article titled “Knock Down Nothing,” in which he spilled the dirty secret that no projectile actually takes an animal off its feet—and that all the slavish attention paid to velocities, bullet weights, and foot-pounds of energy is pretty much wasted.
At the time, I was a high schooler, frying my brain in an effort to memorize all this stuff. I didn’t see how a man who had hunted all over the world and killed more animals than I had dreamed of could say such things, but as I have learned, he was dead (no pun intended) right.

ACTUAL CASE STUDIES
Animals drop because of damage to the brain or the spinal column, which stops signals to the legs; and die when the oxygen in their brains runs out. The bullet’s impact is not the direct cause.

Last fall, I killed two deer with a puny 6.5x55mm handload—a 125-grain bullet at 2750 fps. One fell in its tracks, and the other went one step and dropped. A week later, I killed a deer of roughly the same size with a .300 Jarrett, a cartridge similar to the ferocious .300 Weatherby, and one which shoots a 200-grain bullet at just under 3000 fps. It has exactly twice the muzzle energy of the little 6.5x55. That animal ran for perhaps 60 yards before she went down, in defiance of all that power. A few months earlier, that same rifle and load dumped a 1,500-pound Alaska moose in its tracks. But it didn’t knock the critter off its hooves.

A few years ago I killed a whitetail doe with a .270 that entered the rib cage on the left side and ranged forward to exit the right shoulder, breaking it in the process, and demolishing both lungs and the heart. The bullet almost cut the poor creature in half but did not knock it down. That doe ran for 70 yards.

Good taste constrains me from going on, because good taste is everything to me. I trust that I have made my case.

THE POINT
If you want to hunt big animals, you use a big cartridge that shoots a big bullet. Thick hides, heavy bones, and massive muscles are too much for a small bullet to get through to where it has to do its work. A big bullet will penetrate, but it doesn’t knock anything to the ground.

Similarly, high velocity is useful only because it makes hitting at long range much easier than low velocity. All those thousands of feet per second are not going to sweep any critter off its feet.

(On the other hand, hypervelocity does do some interesting things. I’ve seen tiny 50-grain bullets driven at 4000 fps from a .220 Swift penetrate iron plates that 180-grain .30-caliber game bullets couldn’t punch through.)

RE: Velocity verses Energy. (the debate)
 

I should elaborate when I say the .243 seemed like a girly cartidge. I crunched the numbers according to a certain yardage, I can't remember if it was 100 or 200 yards, with a .243, .308 and a the TKO numbers were .243= 8.57 .308=17.40

I would expect the .243 to be a flatter shooter but thats what puttin in time on the range is for, I know where my .308 will hit at 150 yards and can adjust accordingly.

Metro...