What's a trophy?
 

After reading this a questions came to mind
Let's say I have 10,000 acres high fenced that I manage for QDM. Myself and 5 other guys hunt this property and we are on it in the off season putting in food plots and loading the feeders frequently. Do feel that this would actully condition the older deer not to be leery of humans. You would have to admit that is very light hunting pressure and a deer could be a few years old before it see's a human. They would grow acccustomed to smelling man with out alot of danger. You bringing them their food.That's no reason to fear you.

Come hunting season they hear a few shots and then it's over for another season. Once again many of these deer are never put in a predator prey situation. No reason for big bucks to become nocturnal,right?

If a buck has little hunting pressure and a good deal of human contact. Is a big rack a good indicatator of a trophy?

Why would the larger older deer be as leery of man as a deer on heavily hunted piece of property?

So what's the big deal if your shooting older bucks on a managed property if they aren't any smarter then a 2.5 yr old on public land?

RE: What's a trophy?
 

i agree......i think its just a TAD bit harder to consistantly kill deer on public land then it is on a piece of land 5 guys are allowed on......where i hunt on state game lands theres hikers ect in the summer through there..turkey hunters everywehre in the spring...bow, small game, and turkey hunters in the fall....LOTS of deer turkey and small game....small game its hunted VERY hard becuase of the number of grouse in the area.....then its finally my turn in rifle season.....these deer even half year old deer seen it all......and the ones that survive year to year are even smarter......and its way harder to kill them consistantly........so a public land trophy isnt the same as a private land trophy that never saw a "hunter" in its life....maybe saw someone bringing in food for him......

RE: What's a trophy?
 

I agree with whats been said here. A trophy really is a personal thing, to each their own! Different areas produce different sized deer for one reason or another, so a trophy is what you feel it is. Or better yet, a better than average size deer for the area you hunt in.
Some people pay big money, to shoot huge deer, that they never scouted or worked the land for! Thats OK too! Please, just don't tell me how great a trophy it is!

RE: What's a trophy?
 

All I hunt out here is public land. We have a 3 point min.(one side western count) for mule deer. My season starts Sept 1st for archery. We only get one tag. Since they started the 3pnt rule I have seen alot more nice bucks then before. I also have whitetail around here that I go after tho the pop. on them is less, but it is growing every yr. since we don't have any pay as you hunt land around me, don't really have the same QDM that there is back east. A public land deer is a hard critter to hunt in my book and it makes the hunt more enjoyable. It's funny to watch all of the out of town hunters cruse the roads around private property cause they see a few nice bucks out int he fields. What they don't know is those same bucks move out of those fields and back onto public land. Granted there are a few deer that live on the private ranches around the area but not enough to make me enviouse of it. Some of our ranchers only let 1st time hunters or youngins hunt for those deer, which is great.
Now to the heading of this thread. Since I have never taken a deer that would score in the book. I don't judge a deer by numbers. A trophy to me is a deer that have given me a good hunt and one that is better then the last deer I took. But if I do not see a buck that I want I usualy take a barren doe towards the end of the season or no deer at all. I think to much is placed on the numbers game, i.e. P&Y score or B&C.

RE: What's a trophy?
 

Believe it or not, that particular kind of quote, is a big reason more people don't get involved in QDM. Hunters that chose to push QDM in this fashion are actually doing a diservice to the cause they are trying to promote.[:o] A trophy is subjective to every person on these boards. Good luck to all this season in obtaining the goal they set for themselves.:D

RE: What's a trophy?
 

A trophy is in the eye of the beholder. Everyone from everywhere is going to have a different perception of what a trophy is. I think QDM is a great idea if conditions permit it. If I owned a large hunk of land that only me and a handful of hunters will be able to hunt, and antler restriction wouldn't be a bad idea. A couple of my friends have some land and they do just that. They have taken some nice bucks, and have passed on many.
BUT, I primarily hunt state land here in MA. Granted, there are more & more large bucks being taken out here every season, but it's a rare thing. We scout our butts off and if we see a couple of scrub bucks and does, we are doing something right. Now, if we pass on that little 5 pointer and he continues on away, you are apt to hear a shot, or figure you will never see him again because the next guy certainly won't let him walk!
So, do i believe in QDM? Yes, under certain circumstances. Do I practice it ? No.

RE: What's a trophy?
 

I don't care how light hunting presure is on a piece of property, mature bucks have this innate ability to avoid danger. A buddy of mine makes a joke about mature bucks having a "chip" that makes them spook easily.

I've hunted both private and public land, and I would much rather hunt private land.

And I'm not trying to offend anyone so please don't take it that way. I'm just sharing my opinion but....

Most people out there that are "too proud" to hunt private land either don't have access, or don't have the means to. So they say "hunting private land is not really hunting" but when it comes down to it, if they had the means or the access they would do it in a heart beat! I guarantee you if any of you "public only" hunters were aproached by a member of the King Ranch in south Texas to go on a deer hunt, you would jump on it right away! Then you would be posting the picture on this billboard saying "look at the deer I shot this season!" Be honest now, would you rather work your tail off all season and MAYBE get a shot on something marginal because it makes you feel like you accomplished something more? I'm not buying that for a minute. I'd bet a paycheck that none of you would say "No, I'd rather not go to the King Ranch. That's not really hunting."

I've also hunted on private land where the hunters would shoot everything and it's the same thing. Not many deer, and hardly no mature bucks.

Private land / public land...if everybody could just get on the same page, everyone would benefit and have more and bigger deer.

It comes down to this....Why do we all hunt? We are all trophy hunters. If you hunt, that's why you do it. If you hunt because you NEED the meat then how can you afford to hunt in the first place? Let's face it. Hunting is an expensive hobby. We all do it for egotistical reasons. Eating venison is just an added bonus.

RE: What's a trophy?
 

sreyrjb, since you resonded to my post, I'ld like to say I never said a public land deer was harded to hunt then a private land deer. I said basicly a public land deer is a hard critter to hunt and that makes for a more enjoyable time. In the area I live and hunt in, the area consists of 15% private land and 85% public land. My best hunting areas are on public land so therefore why would I want to hunt anywhere else. I have asked and been given permission to hunt before on private land so that is never a problem for me.
Now since you talked about the King ranch, unless they are going to pay for my flight down there and pay for my lic. and tags and also let me hunt there for free that is really not an issue. Simple economics, I don't have the money to do that and more power to those that do. I could care less.
I hunt where I hunt and how I hunt cause that is what makes me happy and it's what I can afford.
Like I said before a trophy to me is one that I am happy with. Just as one might be that scores high might be what makes the next guy happy.

RE: What's a trophy?
 

up to a 150 Boone & Crockett Gross Score (3 day hunt,) $5,500.00 flat fee,
151 - 170 B & C, $5,500 plus $200.00 per point above the 150 B & C gross score

171 - 180 B & C, $5,500 plus $250.00 per point above the 150 B & C gross score

181 - 199 B & C, $15,000

200+ B & C, $20,000


Nope I'll pass.

RE: What's a trophy?
 

I wasn't replying to your post per-say, I was directing my reply to those who will say that killing a large buck on private land is not a real accomplishment. I was basically saying that those same people, given the oportunity, would jump on the chance to hunt on one of these large game ranches.

RE: What's a trophy?
 

Your missing my point CharlieP.

What I'm saying is if someone approached one of these "public land only because I feel I accomplish so much more" hunters and said...

"We would like for you to come hunt on the King Ranch and it won't cost you anything" they would jump on the chance. None of them would say, "no thanks, that's not really hunting".

Sorry for the confusion. I hope this clarifies the point I was trying to make.

RE: What's a trophy?
 

Don't wager too much - you would loose your shirt with me:)...................

I would never post pictures of my deer.........LOL..........:D

King Ranch - they would have to pay me to hunt it.

Thats what its all about to me........................The only reason I hunt...........and "marginal" has different levels;)

RE: What's a trophy?
 

If no barriers a mature buck is a formidable opponent regardless of his home base.

The trophy isn't in just the antler it is the experience that get you there!!!! I consider myself a trophy hunter and went several years without notching a tag on a buck. In those years I had just as much fun, rewards as years where I put an animal on the dirt. The meat and horns are an absolute bonus, being able to chase them all over hells acre is the true trophy experience to me. I vividly remember being outsmarted more than when I won the battle of wits, the day I stop learning is probably the last day I will ever hunt! Oh and BTW I do it for the meat, we eat venision more than any other meat product we run through 3-4 deer and some moose or elk every year. 1 month till hunting season I need to finally breakdown and buy some beef if i want steak. I certainly agree it ain't b/c it is cheap but it is the best and like a steak when I buy one it is not going to be the round that is on sale but striploin baby!

King Ranch or any other fenced hunt it no thanks...give me wide open spaces, rubs and let me go make my own trophy experience. However I won't diss those who do, I fully understand and am absolutely grantful of my opportunities each fall.

Do it for yourself and you'll be more successful, find it relaxing/enjoyabe and the rewards are what you experience not what you may hang on the wall or dunk in the freezer.

RE: What's a trophy?
 

Honestly I wouldn't jump at the chance at hunting one of these ranches. I hunt all most exclusively on priviate property and have a do it your self mentalty. I really don't get as much enjoyment going on an invited hunt because I didn't scout and hang my own stand.

Heck I'd use the $5,500 to $20,000 these folks want and use it for a down payment on a piece of land close to home that I could enjoy every year.

If a buck has little hunting pressure and a good deal of human contact. Is a big rack a good indicatator of a trophy?

Why would the larger older deer be as leery of man as a deer on heavily hunted piece of property?

So what's the big deal if your shooting older bucks on a managed property if they aren't any smarter then a 2.5 yr old on public land?

So what's your answer to any of these questions spey?

RE: What's a trophy?
 

I'm with Rack on this one you might be surprised. Shooting a big rack that someone else put me on don't get my heart a pumping.

If I get the one I'was hunting last year you'll see it on here that's for sure. Why I've put a lot of sweat and time into trying to figure him out, not just plunked down $15,000 dollars.

RE: What's a trophy?
 

My answer: Would you please donate that hunt to a disabled or sick child. I'll hunt NY.

RE: What's a trophy?
 

I've been reading and shaking my head but I can't hold it any longer. The above mentioned ranch, dose it by chance have an "outclosure";)[:'(]

Keep digging. I hunt public and private land but not highfences. Not if you paid me. The reason I prefer private land to public is I don't have to worry about someone strolling thru a perfectly planned hunt. This often occures on public land. But in bolth cases you do the work.

For me hunting it a total experience. From the 1st day after the season ends to the day I let an arrow fly. I love the woods, I love nature and it seems right I should have to pay my dues to get a crack at a quality animal. Paying to kill an animal in an inclosure is an injustice to the animal you kill IMO. Above all other aspects of bow hunting the relationship between hunter and hunted is what I love most. Whitetails are whittey creatures. They are more than capable of giving me the slip and often do and this is what makes hunting so great. I respect my opponents and a violations of fair chase is something I take personal. An animal taken in violation of fair chase is not a trophy in my eye at least.

So Charlie,
To answer your original question, What do I feel is a trophy? A trophy to me is an animal I take by means of fair chase that is bigger than my best. I never got him measured and probably never will but a deer in the 120" range is a trophy to me where I hunt.

RE: What's a trophy?
 

What exactly is an outclosure?

RE: What's a trophy?
 

http://forum.hunting.net/asppg/tm.as...key=outclosure

Read and see. It's a fancy name for high fence. You know, an inclosure keeps animals in but and outclosure keeps animals out;)[:'(]

RE: What's a trophy?
 

I went several years passing up younger deer waiting for that one good one. I got impatient and caved in for a freak horn (harvesting inferior deer) year before, but I got me a 4 1/2 (Not optimal, but better than 2 or 3) and a good ol rascal that finally made one silly mistake. . . . The proliferation of the video camera has made it more fun. You can 'get em' without cutting short their growth potential. I have video of 3 yeard before of the big buck I got last year. (I think it;s the same buck?!?!?) That is really cool. I have some from the year before that I know is him and he was a shooter then, but is was raining cats and dogs and he wouldn't give me a decent shot. I got him a year later with a little extra mass in his rack.

Now, what will this season hold? hmmm.... There is another bog boy out there, I seen him. He crossed right in front about 5 minutes before I got Ol Gutshot. Yup, he's a year older and on top of the list. Itf he was half a notch less than this one I got, then with a year, he may be half a notch better. Here's hoping

RE: What's a trophy?
 

To answer the simple question....there are 2 types of trophies, absolutes and conditionals. Absolutes are easy they are the big book bucks, that are considered gigantic regardless of the areas they come from. Conditionals are trophies that for one reason or another are extremely special to the person who took them. Size, situation, experience, what ever the case may be.

Now I probably wouldn't turn down a free hunt from the king ranch, just for the experience itself. I don't think I'd feel very proud of the deer I took there, cause it just seems like you are picking thru the herd and eventually one of the right size walks by. You don't have to match wits or anything like that. I'm not such a glutton as to only want to kill big bucks on hard pressured public land, but somewhere in the middle is nice. Enough pressure to keep things honest, but not a slaughter before the deer get to show potential.

RE: What's a trophy?
 

I didn't read most of the posts in this thread because I don't want to get caught up in the same old argument. We seem to get into it right before season every year and it gets old.

Any legal deer is a trophy to me, antlers or no antlers.

RE: What's a trophy?
 

I stay away from public land due t othe amount of idiots that hunt it, i used to hunt a large farm that backed up to gov. land and it seemed all we did instead of hunting was hear truck doors slam, watch orange vests walk all over the place and run people off POSTED land. You cant control your boundaries as well being surrounded by public land than being surrounded by private land. Deer are alot more spooked also, IMOA ill take private land away from public land any day, thats hunting in the south though

RE: What's a trophy?
 

I've hunted public and private lands in the past and I'm exclusively on a private hunt club now. I've killed nice bucks on public land, but I've also have had many terrible public hunts because of the number of people there. Public land, at least in GA, just doesn't allow you to do the things that make a quality hunt. For instance, you can forget about patterning bucks because they are under so much pressure when the hunt is on, they're just busy trying to survive a few days. It's the truly lucky hunter that has success on a nice buck on GA public lands today. That's my experience and viewpoint yet I'm sure they are exceptions even in GA.

Public land does serve a purpose in that it allows those who can't afford a private club the opportunity to hunt. I still say when you can afford it, private land is the way to go. Now I'm not talking about pay hunts and high fences. Get your buddies together and lease a tract, put some effort into it and enjoy making it a great place to hunt.

RE: What's a trophy?
 

DEPENDING WHERE YOU HUNT PUBLIC OR PRIVATE LAND DEER POP. SOME HUNTERS NEVER GET A CHANCE TO SEE DEER ALL THE TIME. I FEEL IF YOU SHOOT A DEER WITH A BOW IT COULD BE A TROPHEY FOR ALL THE TIME THEY SPENT PRACTICING,SCOUTING, PROPER SAND PLACEMENT,IT PAYED OFF FOR ALL THEIR HARD WORK IN MY OPNION!!

RE: What's a trophy?
 

You people dont know cheat, please get your facts straight before you bad mouth something. The king ranch is NOT high fenced, but it does happen to be one of the largest private ranches in the world. It covers over 825,000 acres and is pretty much one continous peice of land. You cant get much more "Wide open spaces" then that. The king ranch makes more money off of oil and gas each year then the saudi royal family does so they probably dont really care what you think of them anyway, but please find out what your talking about before you speak.

RE: What's a trophy?
 

Charlie P:

Sense it was my quote that started this thread, I guess I can answer some of the questions that you contiue to ask.


Just because that deer has little hunting pressure, does not mean it is "tame" or easy to hunt. What is your defintion of "a good deal of human contact"?


Old mature deer are wild animals, it makes no difference if they live on heavily hunted land or land that recieves very little hunting. Deer are not going to lose there fear of humans just because they arent shot at every time they stick there head out of the brush. Deer ( along with all wild animals) have evolved to fear humans.


Why would you think that they arent any smarter then deer that live on heavily hunted public land? Your above question is pretty dumb, and it is clear that you dont have much experience in the topic that you are talking about. What is the big deal?? Belive it or not, any time a true trophy buck is taken (150"+) people are impressed with it. Old mature bucks are hard to hunt/kill no matter where you hunt.

On the ranches that I manage, alot of the old mature bucks are never seen. We have some truly huge bucks running around but the only time we see them is on trail camera pictures, during the rut, and/or when we do a helicopter survey. These deer have thousands of acres to roam and have little reason to step out of the thick brush, so the chances of them being seen is very slim.

I'll contiue..........

RE: What's a trophy?
 

Charlie P:


Your talking about 10,000 acres, that is alot of land, and the fact that only 6 guys hunt all of this land is what makes taking a big buck on it so special. There is such a huge area for these deer to roam and hide that it makes them pretty hard to find when there are only 12 eyeballs looking for them.

Look at it this way,

Lets say you take 10,000 acres of extremely heavily hunted public land in PA. You cant walk out in the woods with out seeing several other hunters. Every deer out there seems to get shot or atleast shot at. So what is the big deal if you shoot a deer out here?? The deer out here have very few areas to hide, and they are running from hill to hill dodging bullets. So what is so special about killing a 1 1/2 year old buck in this area, if you didnt somebody else would have.


People who hunt heavily hunted public land seem to hold a grudge against the hunters who hunt on private land. I find it quite funny when a public land hunter tries to degrade a buck that was taken off of private land. Honestly most private land hunters, myself included, could not care less what some guy from N.Y, P.A, or any other state for that matter, thinks of us or the areas we hunt.

You may never personally want to hunt a managed 10,000 acre private ranch, that is ok. I personally would never want to hunt a pressured piece of public land. I would give up hunting if it ever came to that.

RE: What's a trophy?
 

Rybo Hunter:

All I can do is laugh at that statement.

Lets say your riding with a king ranch guide, he opens your door, tells you to get out, drives off and leaves you in the middle of a 20,000 acre pasture. Do you think you would have to "match wits or anything like that" if you wanted to kill a nice deer?? Would you be proud of the buck you killed?? But I'm sure you wouldn't have much time to "pick thru the herd" because you would be to busy trying to find your way out of the brush. The border patrol might find you, if your lucky.

LOL some people just crack me up.......

RE: What's a trophy?
 

ok, so i had a wrong impression from reading everybody else's responses. I did not realize the magnitude of the ranches land area, or the style of hunting employed. My picture was sitting in a box blind watching buck after buck parade through the area of a much lesser expanse with a fence around it, just waiting to shoot one that is big enough.
I jumped the gun and opened my mouth too quick.

Just as you have a hard time understanding competing with dozens of other people who want to shoot every deer they see, I have a hard time understanding getting mad at a kid for shooting a buck before its time.

You still have to concede that consistently shooting a mature buck in a heavily hunted area is much more difficult than on a ranch that has dozens and dozens of them.

RE: What's a trophy?
 

I won't go down to your level and call you dumb or throw insults. Your attitde is obvious from some of your posts.

RE: What's a trophy?
 

Charlie P:

You started this thread, and asked several questions about something you had little knowledge of. You had no problem stating your opinion and you seemed to try and degrade people who hunted on private land and the animals that those people took.

Now I took the time to answer your questions and if I seemed alittle rude then to bad, you should find out what your talking about before you speak.

Please elaborate, I would love to find out what kind of person I am according to you.............

RE: What's a trophy?
 

Just to give you an idea how big the king ranch is, its bigger than the state of Rhode Island.

RE: What's a trophy?
 

That is a very tough question to answer. It depends on who you ask. A young hunter who is just starting out, a trophy to them might be a fat doe. To the person who only gets to hunt a couple days of the year it might be any legal buck regardless of size. To the old timer it might be the deer he just killed because it might be the last one he'll ever harvest. In my eyes, at the point I'm at now in my hunting career, it's a buck that would fall into the top ten percent for that PARTICULAR area. That's why that question stirs up so much contraversy. It just depends on who you ask.

RE: What's a trophy?
 

Very good explination BigWay, thank you.

RE: What's a trophy?
 

Trophy-my 1st deer-a yearling Doe at age 15 looked pretty darn big to me taken in 1958 in Ill. (private land)with a wood arrow & stick bow & then the forky in Ws. (my 1st buck-public land) in 1964 was REALLY a TROPHY to me & then this Buck a couple years ago on Public land (pic).
I pass on little Bucks now but then I have been bowhunting 48 years & your idea of a trophy changes over the years. I still Bowhunt tons of public ground & with very good success. I am fortunate to live in the midwest where big deer live & I bowhunt Ill., Iowa & Ws. on a VERY regular basis & 95% of my Deer Hunting is on PUBLIC ground. Some of my public spots have fewer Bowhunters than private places I know of.
I will never critisize someone for taking what others deem LESS than a trophy-we don't know the background of that hunter or the place they have to hunt. I know some guys who see great bucks all the time BUT, there is a reason-they either hunt property bordering some type park, sanctuary or very limited to public access. Some are NEVER privvy to even SEE what I deem a trophy-personally, I have my sights set on a 160 class or better this year BUT then I did last year & my 1 Buck tag per year is hanging over my desk. Oh, the Buck in the pic-I never scored cause I really don't care about record books but I do have lots of respect for those who manage to get in them the HONEST way.

RE: What's a trophy?
 

A trophy is any animal you're proud of having shot.

RE: What's a trophy?
 

I consider a trophy for me outside the ears or super tall tines. I am very "choosey" when I take an animal. I don't shoot what ever comes walking by.

RE: What's a trophy?
 

What is all the darn fuss about "trophies"? To be honest - I can't ever remember the word "trophy" mentioned @ camp when it comes to one of us harvesting a deer. Maybe we don't consider ourselves "trophy hunters". We hunt for the sheer rush of being outdoors, & away from the rat race.

My friends & I live in the burbs, and we all have wives & young kids. We don't live near large expanses of woods/wilderness. The public land that is close enough is so heavily hunted, we primarily avoid it altogether. The closest place around here to sight in a rifle is an hour & 10 minutes away. If we're lucky, we'll be able to get up to camp (7 1/2hrs away) in the off season for routine maintenance and some scouting.

I guess what I'm saying, is that we all pretty much feel grateful/lucky enough to get away for a couple days during bow, rifle, & muzzleloader seasons.

A trophy to one of us would be an 8 pt. & it probably wouldn't make any record books.

Yoopper Hunter

RE: What's a trophy?
 

IMHO, a trophy is any animal taken that holds special significance to the person who took it. Ignore what others think.

EKM