<font color=maroon>Scent Seeker, how do you define a &quot;ranch&quot;? Is it private land under fence or is it a high-fenced property?
By &quot;penned deer&quot; I'm assuming you mean a 20-30 acre hi-fenced place that they turn a deer out and someone shoots it. To me, that's unethical and I agree with you.
In defense of Bill Jordan, if he is scouting the feeding and bedding locations and knows what deer are there, isn't that hunting?

Pablo
</font id=maroon>

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>if the hunter outly admits that he/she's just going to &quot;kill/butcher&quot; game for meat or the trophy <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

I'm sorry but that's just not far to the game you are gunna shoot. Maybe if it was a managment thing, but otherwise, I think that's a joke.

i would shoot one but i am not paying up to $ 15,000 for a deer. yeah they have big racks but my deer around here taste just as good . plus i like the fact that i beat a deer that lives by it's on rules. and come on bill jordan, the knight and hale team they all kill penned deer. the thing i like about the mossy oak team they show people like..well me that will shoot a doe or a &quot;management&quot; buck and our happy to get a deer. these so called ranches do it for big money. and jordan and his kind do it to sell videos. those that buy them support him. i used to but then i figured him out. i borrow them.<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

Pablo, that's a liitle saller than what I'm thinking about but it's a good example. anywhere under 800 acres Is what I would consider &quot;penned&quot;. And with the Bill Jordan subject, he doesn't do ANY reapeat ANY scouting. the guides at the ranch are on constant watch over the herd. (It may sound hypocritical, but come on, under 800 acres?) So Jordan walks into there, they remove the feeders set up on a deer trail so big they pave it and use it as a sidewalk, cause where else are the deer gonna walk? They make too mnay trails, they'll have no bush to bed in! Then they sit in a stand where Mr. Big walks EVERY night. He is undisturbed, only by the scouting cameras, 310 days out of the year and it has become habit. he goes where he feels safe: along that trail. Jordan puts up a tripod...&quot;BOOM&quot;...the smoke clears and that's a wrap. A 30 min episode for the tv and a boonie for the wall. What chance did Mr. Big really have? Now, I frown upon this but it's legal. You won't find me out there but if you're out there it's your choice and I wish you well. (Not that you'll need it)

</img>
Hunting leaves tracks on my heart and imprints memories in my head.

sorry guys. in the last post what I meant by it sounding hypocritical is scouting and finding the feeding areas and bedding areas is what hunting is all about, but a constant watch and digital cameras and the works for a spot under 800 acres? In a few months you'll know where the tick families live on each deer. It's not &quot;hunting&quot; then, it's shooting.
</img>
Hunting leaves tracks on my heart and imprints memories in my head.

Pope and Young FAIR CHASE rule #3:
No animal taken behind he confines of a fence shall be considered fair chase.

Deer behind fences are captive.They cannot escape. They are not free ranging. And in my state hunting behind a fence is illegal.

Anyone who is a millionaire can buy a thousand acres or more and fence it in. Then they can put out tons of just the right minerals and plant just the right crops and feed the deer high protien diets for the biggest bodies and the best racks. At this point it becomes a zoo. Then they can charge big bucks for people to hunt there. Unfortunately this has become big business in Texas and some other states.

Littlehuntnfool...why don't you read the rest of my quote: &quot;...and admits that there was no &quot;hunting&quot; skill required.&quot;

I never said that was &quot;hunting&quot;. To me, going after a feral pig or pen raised pig or goat is no different than slaughtering the family farm animal.

I've never seen anyone here in CA that raised deer for the purpose I mentioned above. I'm talking about pigs, feral hogs, goats and feral goats/sheep etc... I'd rather shoot the animal myself and butcher it myself than having a grocery store butcher process my pen raised beef, lamb etc...

Yes, I don't know if hunting &quot;penned&quot; deer is unethical. It's just not sporting or true &quot;hunting&quot;. It's just killing. If someone is raising penned deer, I guess they can do what they want with it. It's not like catching wild deer, then confining it behind a fence and shooting &quot;fish from a barrel.&quot;

Its not hunting, its nothing more than killing livestock for meat.