Dogs Chasing Deer
04-06-2004, 10:03 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location:
Posts: 17
Dogs Chasing Deer
It's legal to shoot wild dogs chasing deer in Ohio. Dogs will run a deer all night by taking turns chasing till the deer is wore out then they kill it, just like wolves do. The alpha dog (wolf) will bark commands to the others during the chase. This is the reason our domestic dogs listen to and follow our commands.
They may or may not eat their kill. The dogs that people let run all night then come home and sleep on the porch all day (which the owner thinks is cute) usually eats at home. The wild dogs will let the tame ones do most of the work then get their fill. These are for the most part dogs that irresponsible pet owners drop off in the country that turned wild. Some are coydogs that were always wild and also run with coyote's.
I live a 1/2 a mile from my nearest neighbor in the country. People drive out here and say "oh this looks like a nice place for fluffy, run free with the wind" then I have to finish the job. It's not something I enjoy doing but something that has to be done. I have young kids. Tell your city dwelling friends, when you drop your pets off in the country YOU are signing it's death warrant. Again, what I call irresponsible pet ownership.
But how can one tell a "wild" dog from someone's pet?
Good question and one I had no answer for when I first moved here. The best way I've found is look for the shifty eyes. The wild one's have those shifty eyes that never stop moving and their head hung low, also their coat is usually scruffy looking. They are never fat and mostly will take off when they see you. Overall, body language would be my answer.
Now I would never shoot a gundog or anything that even remotely acted friendly. I have had many dogs that were lost come in my yard cause I'm the only house around. I tie them up and call the number on the collar or if there’s no number just wait till the owner shows up looking. Never waited more than 3 days. I have gundogs of my own that I would not want to lose so I know the feeling. One dog supposedly traveled 7 mile from where the guy lived, I think he was hunting out here but he wouldn't admit to it.
Dig this. Before light one morning I climbed into one of my favorite tree stands on the outskirts of a bedding area. First three doe's walked by at first light. 20 minutes later, two lesser bucks took another path right through my zone and none of them knew I was there. I'm pumped now wondering when bullwinkle is going to show up when I heard leaf noises in the brush. Now I'm really pumped. Checking the edge of the brush I see it's two dogs hunting. What? A Sheppard looking thing and a big black lab looking mutt. As soon as they broke into my zone, they saw me. Now instead of leaving they ran to my tree and started aggressively barking at me like I'm some treed coon. BS. At first I thought the Sheppard was the leader but the black mutt was really being aggressive so I stuck an arrow through him and pinned him to the ground. He let out a spooky death howl. As I went for another arrow the other dog split in high gear. I dragged him out of my hunting area and my morning hunt was over. I always wondered what would have happened had I been in my ground blind?
Usually the way it goes is I hear dogs barking and when I look I see a deer running out ahead of them. I will then position myself where the deer ran then wait for them to show up.
They may or may not eat their kill. The dogs that people let run all night then come home and sleep on the porch all day (which the owner thinks is cute) usually eats at home. The wild dogs will let the tame ones do most of the work then get their fill. These are for the most part dogs that irresponsible pet owners drop off in the country that turned wild. Some are coydogs that were always wild and also run with coyote's.
I live a 1/2 a mile from my nearest neighbor in the country. People drive out here and say "oh this looks like a nice place for fluffy, run free with the wind" then I have to finish the job. It's not something I enjoy doing but something that has to be done. I have young kids. Tell your city dwelling friends, when you drop your pets off in the country YOU are signing it's death warrant. Again, what I call irresponsible pet ownership.
But how can one tell a "wild" dog from someone's pet?
Good question and one I had no answer for when I first moved here. The best way I've found is look for the shifty eyes. The wild one's have those shifty eyes that never stop moving and their head hung low, also their coat is usually scruffy looking. They are never fat and mostly will take off when they see you. Overall, body language would be my answer.
Now I would never shoot a gundog or anything that even remotely acted friendly. I have had many dogs that were lost come in my yard cause I'm the only house around. I tie them up and call the number on the collar or if there’s no number just wait till the owner shows up looking. Never waited more than 3 days. I have gundogs of my own that I would not want to lose so I know the feeling. One dog supposedly traveled 7 mile from where the guy lived, I think he was hunting out here but he wouldn't admit to it.
Dig this. Before light one morning I climbed into one of my favorite tree stands on the outskirts of a bedding area. First three doe's walked by at first light. 20 minutes later, two lesser bucks took another path right through my zone and none of them knew I was there. I'm pumped now wondering when bullwinkle is going to show up when I heard leaf noises in the brush. Now I'm really pumped. Checking the edge of the brush I see it's two dogs hunting. What? A Sheppard looking thing and a big black lab looking mutt. As soon as they broke into my zone, they saw me. Now instead of leaving they ran to my tree and started aggressively barking at me like I'm some treed coon. BS. At first I thought the Sheppard was the leader but the black mutt was really being aggressive so I stuck an arrow through him and pinned him to the ground. He let out a spooky death howl. As I went for another arrow the other dog split in high gear. I dragged him out of my hunting area and my morning hunt was over. I always wondered what would have happened had I been in my ground blind?
Usually the way it goes is I hear dogs barking and when I look I see a deer running out ahead of them. I will then position myself where the deer ran then wait for them to show up.
04-07-2004, 08:55 PM
#7
Typical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Alabama
Posts: 703
RE: Dogs Chasing Deer
I had a lease a couple years ago that I killed more dogs than deer. When I first got the land, there were an abundance of deer and turkey on it. After people started dumping dogs around the place, the turkeys were gone and most of the deer either left or went completely noctornal. I hated to have to kill the dogs, but I really hated spending that much money to hunt and having to worry about being attacked by one of them. That almost happened once. A 30-06 at 2ft changed his way of thinking.
04-07-2004, 11:43 PM
#8
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location:
Posts: 6
RE: Dogs Chasing Deer
Someone passed this on to me a while back, I forget where it originally came from.
Pets gone wild - When dog mobs are free to roam the urban fringe, trouble follows.
Steve Jenkins was jogging on the outskirts of Palm Springs on New Year's Day in 2002 when he was surrounded by a gang of 20 dogs. The hounds tore chunks of flesh from his arms and legs, pulling him down each time he tried to stagger to his feet.
Predatory dog packs like the one that attacked Jenkins, a Pasadena drummer, are emerging as a threat to wildlife and humans nationwide. In Montana and Colorado, dog mobs routinely kill deer, antelope, moose and elk. In a Colorado Division of Wildlife report, one department says they field reports of dogs chasing big game almost daily.
In January 2003, in a forest preserve in Chicago, a 48-year-old woman was killed by a dog pack. And in Daly City, Calif., last October, 20 wild dogs killed 13 sheep at a 4-H club and stalked students at a neighboring elementary school.
In Southern California, more and more wildlife workers are reporting run-ins with dogs.
"It's a significant and very important threat in the urban fringe areas," says Jill Heaton, principal investigator for the University of Redlands Desert Tortoise Project.
Heaton herself was recently charged by six dogs while doing fieldwork on the Twentynine Palms Marine base.
There is no central clearinghouse to track assaults by dog packs on either humans or wildlife, so the scope of the problem is not known. But because of the unpredictable nature of the attacks, some outdoor workers now fear dogs even more than classic predators such as cougars.
"I personally would be more concerned with a feral dog than I would a coyote or a wolf," says Judy Bartzatt, chief ranger at Joshua Tree National Park, where, in the spring of 2002, a pack of dogs attacked bighorn sheep near Stubbe Spring, killing at least one.
The danger is greatest in the so-called urban shadow where Californians go to play. These are recreational areas on the outskirts of population centers such as Twentynine Palms, Barstow and the Coachella Valley.
Dogs are less of a concern in remote wilderness, but if you hike or bike anywhere near human habitat, dog packs should be on your list of potential hazards. Sparsely populated areas usually have few animal control services.
There's also a liberty-loving contingent on the outskirts of cities that likes the idea of emancipating their pets, if just for a day.
As Colorado wildlife manager Tonya Sharp said in a report: "They think that if they buy 5 acres they can let their dogs run loose."
"We're seeing the tip of the iceberg. As urbanization increases, it's going to get worse," says Henry McCutchen, chief of resource management at Joshua Tree National Park.
It's not hard to imagine purely feral dogs, or ownerless canines, going on a rampage. But in a chilling twist to the trend, the culprits usually are not truly feral dogs — they're pets.
Known by the terms "free-roaming" or "free-ranging," according to Rhys Evans, a Twentynine Palms ecologist, the predators are pooches that go home at night to eat Gravy Train. Misguided owners let them run free during the day, and they join other marauding pets. In Jenkins' case, his attackers were strays that were being fed each night by a local dog lover.
Because wild animals must kill to eat, they tend to be efficient killers. But free-roaming dogs don't need to eat. "They chew for chewing's sake," says Kristin Berry, research wildlife biologist for the U.S. Geological Survey in Moreno Valley.
When desert tortoises are attacked by foxes or coyotes, they're normally killed and consumed, adds Heaton. However, tortoises assaulted by free-roaming dogs wind up alive but maimed, with scales and legs ripped off. In some study plots, Heaton says, as many as 40% of tortoises have been mauled by dogs.
As jogger Jenkins found, free-roaming dogs maim, chew and mutilate in a kind of ritualized pack play. Jenkins was rescued from his New Year's mauling by a passing ATV driver. Two surgeries and a year of rehab later, he was back to drumming in his oldies band.
There is as yet no areawide plan to control the free-roaming dog menace. Understaffed animal control departments are left to deal with the hazard by trapping and euthanizing wild dogs.
Meanwhile, some dog owners continue to argue for freedom. As San Diego columnist Logan Jenkins wrote, defending his practice of letting his golden retriever off rein: "Lassie never wore a leash."
Pets gone wild - When dog mobs are free to roam the urban fringe, trouble follows.
Steve Jenkins was jogging on the outskirts of Palm Springs on New Year's Day in 2002 when he was surrounded by a gang of 20 dogs. The hounds tore chunks of flesh from his arms and legs, pulling him down each time he tried to stagger to his feet.
Predatory dog packs like the one that attacked Jenkins, a Pasadena drummer, are emerging as a threat to wildlife and humans nationwide. In Montana and Colorado, dog mobs routinely kill deer, antelope, moose and elk. In a Colorado Division of Wildlife report, one department says they field reports of dogs chasing big game almost daily.
In January 2003, in a forest preserve in Chicago, a 48-year-old woman was killed by a dog pack. And in Daly City, Calif., last October, 20 wild dogs killed 13 sheep at a 4-H club and stalked students at a neighboring elementary school.
In Southern California, more and more wildlife workers are reporting run-ins with dogs.
"It's a significant and very important threat in the urban fringe areas," says Jill Heaton, principal investigator for the University of Redlands Desert Tortoise Project.
Heaton herself was recently charged by six dogs while doing fieldwork on the Twentynine Palms Marine base.
There is no central clearinghouse to track assaults by dog packs on either humans or wildlife, so the scope of the problem is not known. But because of the unpredictable nature of the attacks, some outdoor workers now fear dogs even more than classic predators such as cougars.
"I personally would be more concerned with a feral dog than I would a coyote or a wolf," says Judy Bartzatt, chief ranger at Joshua Tree National Park, where, in the spring of 2002, a pack of dogs attacked bighorn sheep near Stubbe Spring, killing at least one.
The danger is greatest in the so-called urban shadow where Californians go to play. These are recreational areas on the outskirts of population centers such as Twentynine Palms, Barstow and the Coachella Valley.
Dogs are less of a concern in remote wilderness, but if you hike or bike anywhere near human habitat, dog packs should be on your list of potential hazards. Sparsely populated areas usually have few animal control services.
There's also a liberty-loving contingent on the outskirts of cities that likes the idea of emancipating their pets, if just for a day.
As Colorado wildlife manager Tonya Sharp said in a report: "They think that if they buy 5 acres they can let their dogs run loose."
"We're seeing the tip of the iceberg. As urbanization increases, it's going to get worse," says Henry McCutchen, chief of resource management at Joshua Tree National Park.
It's not hard to imagine purely feral dogs, or ownerless canines, going on a rampage. But in a chilling twist to the trend, the culprits usually are not truly feral dogs — they're pets.
Known by the terms "free-roaming" or "free-ranging," according to Rhys Evans, a Twentynine Palms ecologist, the predators are pooches that go home at night to eat Gravy Train. Misguided owners let them run free during the day, and they join other marauding pets. In Jenkins' case, his attackers were strays that were being fed each night by a local dog lover.
Because wild animals must kill to eat, they tend to be efficient killers. But free-roaming dogs don't need to eat. "They chew for chewing's sake," says Kristin Berry, research wildlife biologist for the U.S. Geological Survey in Moreno Valley.
When desert tortoises are attacked by foxes or coyotes, they're normally killed and consumed, adds Heaton. However, tortoises assaulted by free-roaming dogs wind up alive but maimed, with scales and legs ripped off. In some study plots, Heaton says, as many as 40% of tortoises have been mauled by dogs.
As jogger Jenkins found, free-roaming dogs maim, chew and mutilate in a kind of ritualized pack play. Jenkins was rescued from his New Year's mauling by a passing ATV driver. Two surgeries and a year of rehab later, he was back to drumming in his oldies band.
There is as yet no areawide plan to control the free-roaming dog menace. Understaffed animal control departments are left to deal with the hazard by trapping and euthanizing wild dogs.
Meanwhile, some dog owners continue to argue for freedom. As San Diego columnist Logan Jenkins wrote, defending his practice of letting his golden retriever off rein: "Lassie never wore a leash."
04-08-2004, 05:29 AM
#9
Dominant Buck
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Ramsey , Indiana
Posts: 22,545
RE: Dogs Chasing Deer
ORIGINAL: rattlem
I agree Kevin in cattle country the dogs play havic with cattle, run them through fences and kill calves. We do away with them on site. Deer are just a toy to them.
I agree Kevin in cattle country the dogs play havic with cattle, run them through fences and kill calves. We do away with them on site. Deer are just a toy to them.
I was referring to people . There have been incidents of feral dog packs in my area threatening and even chasing people . Thankfully , nobody has been seriously hurt or killed yet . They are considered dangerous varmints here and are shot on sight by nearly everyone . Feral cats are also subject to this sentiment due to the damage they do to ground nesting birds and other small game . Stray pets unfortunately get nailed by this as well , and their owners are the ones at fault for not obeying the leash laws .
04-08-2004, 06:47 AM
#10
Typical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Georgia
Posts: 882
RE: Dogs Chasing Deer
We have the same problem in Georgia. When leased our hunting club land 21 yrs. ago, we had wild dog problems. My brother was treed by several and killed as many as he could before they ran off. We have killed dogs on this property that were definitely crossed with coyotes. This type dog is more aggressive.
Our property is bordered on the back side by a river and it has been a problem with outlaws' (can't call the hunters) taking street dogs they can catch and turning them loose to run deer and hogs. Some of these dogs won't chase anything, but all it takes is one in the bunch to start and they all will get in the chase. What these people do is sit in their boats and listen to the dogs, when they can tell that the dogs are headed towards the river they run their boats to that location to kill whatever gets' in the water or runs the bank. We have had to handle this problem on our own.
As for pets, I have about a 3 acre yard and have had as many as 17 dogs at one time, bird dogs and beagles. They were all pened and when I turned them out they only could run in my yard. To keep them in the yard I ran a low voltage electric fence around my yard, they learn fast, but stay in my yard safe. Only problem with this, is that you couldn't melt one an pour it over a fence, I have to pick them up and put them across any fence I come to while hunting birds. I own about 20 acres and still do not allow my dogs to run free unless I am with them.
So in a nutshell, I guess this problem exist everywhere, sad to have to kill them but sometimes it has to be done.
My two cents.
dog1
Our property is bordered on the back side by a river and it has been a problem with outlaws' (can't call the hunters) taking street dogs they can catch and turning them loose to run deer and hogs. Some of these dogs won't chase anything, but all it takes is one in the bunch to start and they all will get in the chase. What these people do is sit in their boats and listen to the dogs, when they can tell that the dogs are headed towards the river they run their boats to that location to kill whatever gets' in the water or runs the bank. We have had to handle this problem on our own.
As for pets, I have about a 3 acre yard and have had as many as 17 dogs at one time, bird dogs and beagles. They were all pened and when I turned them out they only could run in my yard. To keep them in the yard I ran a low voltage electric fence around my yard, they learn fast, but stay in my yard safe. Only problem with this, is that you couldn't melt one an pour it over a fence, I have to pick them up and put them across any fence I come to while hunting birds. I own about 20 acres and still do not allow my dogs to run free unless I am with them.
So in a nutshell, I guess this problem exist everywhere, sad to have to kill them but sometimes it has to be done.
My two cents.
dog1