Why would you want a pass through??
 

i have spent many years studying snipers and professional assassins. the LAST thing that a professional assassin wants is a pass through. a pass through is just lost energy from a bullet. You want all the energy of the bullet hitting your target. by shooting THROUGH the deer/person, you lose energy. why would you want this?? i try to find a bullet that expands alot. all my bullets pass through, but most die within sight. and the entrance hole is good enough to meup to this point. so, as i was reading Zrexpilot's message, why would a bullet that doesnt pass through considered junk? thanks for the info in advance.

RE: Why would you want a pass through??
 

It's nice to have 2 holes for tracking. In most cases it means more blood ..Bill

RE: Why would you want a pass through??
 

Ditto to what 338 said.

RE: Why would you want a pass through??
 

Yep nice blood trail. I also dont buy into energy crap. The more devastion created to tissue the quicker the kill in my opinion. Shock value is what kills, not energy. Just my $.02 though

RE: Why would you want a pass through??
 

This season I kiilled two bucks, on the first one I recovered my bullet. This deer ran about 30 yards and I was able to find him, even though there was no blood trail. Had he run much more I may not have recovered him at all. On the second buck, my bullet failed to expand. The exit was no larger than the entrance. This deer ran 75 yards or so through some very thick pines and briars. He did not leave any blood trail. Tracking him in the dark was nearly impossible and I feel very lucky to have found him!
Both these bucks were dead the instant they were shot, they just happened to run! Most heart/lung shots do run a little ways.
I know the theory of having a bullet expend all its energy inside an animal, but even when that happens the animal may run 100 yards are so before dropping. That is why I'd rather a bullet that expands AND exits, a good blood trail can mean the difference between venison on the table and buzzard bait!

RE: Why would you want a pass through??
 

i know wnat you mean kobear i hit a doe at 30 yards with 150 gr. Super-X Hollow Point, 30-30 i had 1 hole and it was like a bomb with bits of copper all over in the heart, lung, liver, and close to the gut. she jumped when we were pushing bush i hit her on the run and she just slowed down to a walk then fell over like she had gone 100 yards, i try for 1 hole

RE: Why would you want a pass through??
 

Deer bleed a LOT more if there is an exit wound. I have had bad luck with a rapid expansion bullet on larger deer. I like nosler partitions and barnes x bullets.;)

RE: Why would you want a pass through??
 

More energy transfered to animal = more devastation to tissue. Shock comes from transfer of energy.

I prefer a pass through any day also. I only get to shoot slugs where I live so they all hit hard.......I do however prefer a solid slug like a Winchester hollow point vs slugs that try to "spin" like bullets ex. Breneke. I have killed a few deer with Breneke's (My gun loves them) but I have also skinned a few and found them inside the opposite hide......which should not happen from shotgun range IMO.

I killed a big buck this year with a Winchester and it blew right through him like the wind.......he never even looked like he got hit. He ran almost 100 yards before he ran out of blood. Perfect double lung shot.........blood EVERYWHERE..........just wasn't placed in a spot that would have transfered the knockdown power from slug into the deer.

Where you shoot a deer has a lot to do with how much energy will be absorbed by the tissue. If you blow through 1/2" of meat on each side between the ribs and nothing but soft lung in the middle........not much energy is spent. It's like a hot knife through butter. Shoot the same deer with the same slug in the neck or shoulders and it will be a totally different story.......especially if you catch the spine. Either way kills........I just prefer blood trails as big and red as possible so I know the deer will be at the end of that red brick road.

I just shoot 'em right behind the shoulder......no need to worry about energy or shock or any of that fancy talk.......just go get your deer :D

RE: Why would you want a pass through??
 

KoBear, military rounds are meant more for maiming than for killing, the idea is to create havoc in the person being shot body, if you wound somebody it takes the wounded of the battle field and the 2 men to carry them.

I prefer to use corloks myself the bullet expands massively staying in one piece causing massive internal shock, little hole in, big hole out, tons of blood for trailing. Hunting bullets are designed to kill, not maim.

RE: Why would you want a pass through??
 

Ex., the 5.56 mm round is by far the most widely used round for assault rifles in this country, but I doubt you would choose that round for deer hunting. Just cause this is a good round to nuetralize people, dosen't mean that it is a good deer hunting round.

RE: Why would you want a pass through??
 

Unfortunately, we can't predict exactly what a bullet is going to hit when it strikes the deer. Hitting a rib on impact will obviously expand the bullet faster than hitting "rib meat". This phenomenon causes me to lean towards a bullet like the nosler partition. I usually hunt from a tree and getting a pass through with a low exit will normally create a good blood trail. The theory is no different than for an arrow. The lack of blood trail that can occur is sometimes due to the shot hitting high in the deer's chest. The blood simply fills the chest cavity but never high enough to come out of either the entrance or exit holes. The shortest tracking and least meat damage seems to come form a shoulder blade hit. That hit typically sends the bullet and parts of the shoulder balde through the vitals so even if the shock to the spine only stuns the deer the organ damage finishes the deal. The deer tends to just tip over as if the wind blew it down.[:-]

RE: Why would you want a pass through??
 

After you shoot someone in combat you do not have to track him down and find him.

As Taz said - two men to carry him.

IMO two hole always better than one

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RE: Why would you want a pass through??
 

;) I vote for pass thru ammo. My boy nailed a monster doe last year with his 12ga.[no rifle allowed] quartering away shot and he popped her good. Double lung/heart but slug lodged in far side rib/hide. I came over to Joe and asked, "success" he responds "yep". He directs me to right where he nailed her. I looked and looked and finally could detect a very faint blood spray in the snow. Luckily, she only went 30 yds into a very thick reedy, snow covered swamp[of course], never saw another trace of blood till we found her. We were lucky, many non pass-thrus end up lost deer. Double hole all the way, if possible ,is the way to go in my humble opinion.

RE: Why would you want a pass through??
 

I prefer that the bullet stay in the body and transmit massive shock to the tissue of the heart and lungs , not many deer get off their butts when that happens . Passthrough is desirable in archery for a good blood trail , but an arrow kills by cutting .

RE: Why would you want a pass through??
 

This has been an interesting discussion, but I feel that one point has been left out. With today's loads in a decent rifle (IMHO, a .243 or larger), I really don't think it makes much difference whether the bullet passes through or not. Within acceptable ranges, the bullet's energy is still going to be enough to devastate a deer with a vitals hit.

For tracking, two holes are certainly better than one.

RE: Why would you want a pass through??
 

I agree that a .223 is probably enough caliber to take deer down in most cases but there are about 20 other calibers that I think 99% of people will agree is a better round for whitetail deer. In this state and I believe most others in this country it is against the game laws to hunt deer with a .223 rifle. JMO though.

RE: Why would you want a pass through??
 

I disagree but hey thats what this board is about. I like to discuss things like this.
Energy "quote unquote" is derived from a mathmatical equasion, dont know it exactly, but it's the weight of the bullet times it's velocity etc.etc etc. It does not show actuall damage from bullets or the devestation thats created with different bullets traveling at different speeds. I for one believe velocity is 10 times more important than energy. Velocity is what creates the shock wave not the weight of the bullet. Most people believe only in big big guns and that energy is the ticket when the truth is, I have seen a 22-250 with hollow points do 10 times as much damage to a deer than a 30-06. Yes with it's little 55 gr bullet traveling near 4000 fps. The only advantage to heavier bullets is there tendancy not to be stoped by bones in big game such as elk or moose. It would be more to your advantage if you match your gun to your game. Deer size game do not require big bores and the smaller guns will do more damage as the bullet does what it designed to do. A big bore or heavier bullet traveling slower will easily go through deer with out the shock wave thats created like smaller bullets traveling faster.
This is why I do not like medium bore calibers there is no real advantage to them.
Ok Iam puting my flame suit on now LOL
Thats why .243's 25-06's and 6mm,s are so great. I say a bigger bore requires more velocity thats why 7mags. and 300's are so great. Bigger and faster = more devastation,
not bigger and slower, that = small entry small exit or no exit if you use rapid expanding bullets and thats probably what is needed in these medium bore calibers.
Man I wish I could find them articles on shock value, some real good reading.
But hey thats just my $.02

RE: Why would you want a pass through??
 

Energy=massXvelocity. So your really fast lightweight bullets have a good bit of energy. Personally, I would rather have a good bloodtrail from 2 holes than 1 hole with an exploded bullet inside. With these fast-expanding bullets, what happens on sharp angle shots and facing shots??? If your bullet explodes on the first shoulder blade (which I've seen happen) you don't get into the ribcage. If you hit if far back hoping for an angle into the ribcage, then it explodes in the guts leaving no bloodtrail. What happens if you hit the deer high in the ribcage?? You would have a poor bloodtrail and a deer hightailing it away from you. In most cases, it may work well. But, I prefer a 30-06 or 270 with corelokt ammo that drives the bullet through the game. I've had exit holes the size of my fist. Deer roll right over like you hit them with a ton of bricks or they run 50 yards. But that's just me.

RE: Why would you want a pass through??
 

JagMagMan
What cartridge were you using for the two deer you mentioned?

I like a pass through for the blood trail, within reason. The bullet has to expand and do some internal damage and not just go zipping through.

I have shot deer with a .35 whelen and 250 grain bullets that had to be followed up and shot again. Two holes but not enough bullet expantion. I have shot deer with a .243 and 100 gr. pills, that didn't go far and were dead but left no blood trail and were hard to find. Something in between is more to my liking.

Robin

RE: Why would you want a pass through??
 

Duffy, I was using 150gr. Core-Loct's in 7MM RM on both bucks! On the recovered bullet (shoulder shot,) the bullet did not retain much weight, but what was left of it had not expanded much. The other, (double lung) the exit was no larger than the entrance! I am suspecting it may have just been a bad box. Maybe the lead and/or jacket may have been harder than it should have been. I've not had this problem before.
Anyway, two holes should be more than twice as good for tracking!

RE: Why would you want a pass through??
 

I like to shoot a bullet that will expand to at least twice its size and not break up within the body. I prefer the bullet to pass through as well. IMO in the time it takes for a bullet to expand, it has delivered the most energy it will have anyway and if the deer does run, I like the better blood trail. I feel that this theory is pretty accurate or it would be legal to hunt with FMJ's.;)

RE: Why would you want a pass through??
 

Only pass through I want is with an arrow, and maybe just a pass though of some small southern town where they know I'm a northerner:D.

RE: Why would you want a pass through??
 

For bowhunting I want a pass thru. For gunhunting , if I'm in a shotgun zone I dont worry about pass thrus. If I'm hunting rifle country I'll use a ballistic tip and watch them fall where they stand!

RE: Why would you want a pass through??
 

Southern girls cant stand yankees
Shotguns are for birds.
Next....
:D

RE: Why would you want a pass through??
 

Like several other people said, a pass through does help with the blood trail. I shoot a 7mm rem mag and every shot i have taken has passed through, though they didnt go far enough to have to trail. I was considering going to nosler partitions but i think that would probably be overkill the 7mm already has so much penetration on deer that i dont need a bullet like that. You definetly want a bullet that will expand good inside so that i doesnt just zip through, passthrough is okay as long as it does some damage when its inside.

RE: Why would you want a pass through??
 

Thats o.k.! I like my women to have all their teeth!

RE: Why would you want a pass through??
 

LOL !