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Lost deer

Old 11-09-2019, 08:08 AM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by rockport
There is no below the spine and above the lungs. That is a myth. The spine dips and "no mans land" is above the spine.
That was my thought too, but I wasn't sure.
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Old 11-09-2019, 08:38 AM
  #22  
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I would say Flags got it right and the hit was high above/clipping the spine sending massive shock through the deer leaving him dazed and confused for a bit but he will probably live.
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Old 11-09-2019, 11:49 AM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by rockport
There is no below the spine and above the lungs. That is a myth. The spine dips and "no mans land" is above the spine.
I know that this so-called "myth" has been debated by hunters for years...

"Now to the nitty-gritty of the question -- 'Whether a deer can survive being hit above the lungs but below the spine?' --- Depending on whether a deer lungs are inflated (breath in) or deflated (big exhale), there may be room for an arrow to pass and not cause a fatal wound."

quote: From another hunting forum that I'm not supposed to link here.
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Old 11-09-2019, 12:03 PM
  #24  
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Did you ever gut a deer and see inside? The above is nothing but nonsense, rationalization for a wrong statement. I assure you, Rockport knows a lot more about deer than you do and he has gutted and butchered more than you. Quit when you are behind.
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Old 11-09-2019, 12:42 PM
  #25  
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Let us also keep in mind that the incident in question involved a muzzleloader, not an arrow. Does it matter? I don't know.
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Old 11-09-2019, 01:12 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by Cub Slayer
Let us also keep in mind that the incident in question involved a muzzleloader, not an arrow. Does it matter? I don't know.

No it makes no difference, a none fatal hit is non fatal for muzzle loader, bow and arrow or center fire firearm. Perhaps a small amount, an arrow does no impart shock like a bullet does and probably would not have knocked the deer down.

Last edited by Oldtimr; 11-09-2019 at 01:38 PM.
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Old 11-09-2019, 06:58 PM
  #27  
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Having been primarily a smoke pole hunter for around forty years, I can say without a doubt that there is no place above the lungs and below the spine that a .50cal ball or .45cal ball will not be absolutely fatal. As rockport stated, that area is a myth that has been spread by the ignorant and those without first hand knowledge of a whitetail deer anatomy. As to the original poster, more than likely you hit where oldtimr and a couple of others stated and just stunned the deer for a bit. I've seen deer hit that looked like they were t-boned by a semi and still get back up and trot off like nothing happened. Now, to Cub Slayers statement about superior weapons, shall I laugh hard or softly snicker? It isn't the weapon there bud. It's the individual using it. I have taken many animals with, according to you, my inadequate smoke poles. Knocking on wood, I have yet to lose an animal but I will not shoot past 100 yards with any of my sidelocks and I always use the patience the old man instilled in me to wait for the perfect shot presentation. I haven't a clue why you are so hung up on muzzleloaders being inadequate, maybe you are the inadequate one but I can tell you with no doubts whatsoever that they are far from inadequate. The whitetail population was nearly wiped out when there was nothing but front stuffers that were not nearly as accurate as the ones made today. The bullets weren't nearly as efficient back then either. Whitetail are not that hard to take down. One just has to have patience and knowledge of where to put the bullet.
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Old 11-09-2019, 07:44 PM
  #28  
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The "void" debate between the spine and lungs comes from primarily archery hunters who have hit a deer high. A high lung shot with a bow often does not bleed allot outside of the deer. Resulting in a kill shot but no blood trail. And believe me, deer can cover some distance after a high lung shot. Lots of deer are lost this way. Or they hit over the spine and think they made a good shot because of how the deer reacts.

Cubslayers point in his last post was that a muzzleloader would likely do allot more damage than an arrow if hit in the "void"(which we've established doesn't exist) and we wouldn't be having a conversation about that "void" shot anyway. He was just saying he didn't know if it made a difference between arrow or .50cal in relation to that shot. In most cases-it does.

Originally Posted by Cub Slayer
I'm not saying this is you, but consider that you might need to stick to superior weapons (i.e. rifles) until you improve.

I won't give you the "Big hole for better blood" lecture, because your .50 cal is obviously plenty big, but there is no way you made a good shot with that round and lost the deer.
I don't think he has a problem with muzzleloaders at all. He gave good advice. Stick with something "better" until you improve. I wouldn't hand my recurve to a brand new hunter or shooter. That would be silly.

Is my recurve adequate? Absolutely, in my hands. Is it a good choice for someone with not allot of experience? No.

He went on to say that a .50 Cal front stuffer is "plenty" and that if a good shot was made, the deer shouldn't have been lost.

Sounds like you both agree.

​​​​​​​-Jake
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Old 11-09-2019, 07:50 PM
  #29  
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It should also be noted that we don't know the OPs experience level or skill level. Which was covered when cubslayers said "I'm not saying this is you..."



This deer traveled just over 50 yards through some very thick brush with the top of the heart gone and both lung shredded on the bottom. If that was a high lung "void" hit it would have went further, without much blood probably. The chest cavity would be full when you gutted it, but you might not get much on the ground for tracking. It can be a very difficult shot to track.

But it's still a fatal shot- no doubt.

-Jake

Last edited by Bocajnala; 11-09-2019 at 07:52 PM.
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Old 11-10-2019, 12:43 AM
  #30  
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my expience with a muzzleloader is to reload as quickly as possible & hold the gun on him. if you see it move any put a second shot it in . that shot be with any weapon or bow. saves time by having to deal with chasing a wounded animal. it's best to waste a pound of meat than to have to deal with losing a animal. i lost 1 deer in my lifetime & it's still haunts me .because a day later i found it & the coyotes had a field day with it. my me sick & disgusted that i made a deer suffer like that. i almost quite hunting at that time. but promised myself never shoot until it is the perfect shot. & DUDE you should of never went hunting without aleast 5 rounds . not saying it should take you 5 rounds to kill it . but for 100% back up.also i believe any shot hitting a deer is fatal because if it does'nt die from the shot it most likely to die from infection or will suffer in pain the rest of it's life. it's like when i was t boned on a motorcycle people told me aleast you weren't killed but let me tell you my hips & shoulders are always in some kind of pain. period
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