Whitetail Craziness
 

I think the Whitetail World has gone just a little crazy. These days we have more posted signs than hunters, people are buying and leasing land faster than Donald Trump can fire people, and on and on and on.... ......Food plots and trail cams up the ying yang, mineral supplements being put out, hunters buying every gadget under the sun, etc.

A 140" buck doesn't even get a second glance these days. Unless you live in Vermont or Maine, no one gives a hoot about body weight. It used to be body weight was the measure of a big buck...not these days. It's all about who can grow the biggest buck on their farm. I read a story recently about a guy whose family bought a 3,000 acre farm and then hired a manager to run it and watch over it as they lived in a big city somewhere or another. He shoots a big buck and then pats himself on the back for it. Really? Why not just go to a preserve and shoot a big buck....pretty much the same thing.

Speaking of preserves, deer farms and shooting preserves are popping up all over the US and Canada and from what I understand most are booked solid. Thousands of whopper bucks are killed on these preserves and I'm sure many are being passed off as being killed in free range areas. Egos gone wild....

I don't get it. I love hunting big bucks and love a big rack as much as the next guy, but it's really gotten out of hand. I rarely watch a deer hunting show on tv anymore. If you seen one buck shot out of a tree stand over a food plot you've seen them all. It's nuts!!!!

amen to that brother! you hit the nail right on the head or otherwise BULLSEYE. hunting is becoming a richman's sport. whatever happened to the days of meat hunting.?

Were you not just in Saskatchewan complaining about seeing only small bucks. I'm not sure are you now complaining about people only trying to shoot bigger bucks ? As far as the guy patting himself on the back for shooting a big buck on his property that is managed by someone else why shouldn't he ? I hunted a buddies place in Kansas for the past 4 years and am still waiting to shoot a big buck !As long as its free range and not high fence good for him. I wish it was as easy as you seem to think well actually maybe not. I wish I had the money to be able to purchase a nice piece of property and have it managed for deer ! I should also add that I have hunted Montana for the past 5 years and if I lived there I don't think I could ever complain about hunting man you have it good there ;)
Of course if your just fishing to get some traffic here then you got me LOL

I hear you. I'm a "Vermont guy" too, although I've lived in Montana for the past 41 years but I was born and raised in Salisbury. Lots of great memories growing up there...hunting camp, little deer drives with the uncles and cousins, etc....where any buck is a trophy and rightfully so. 35 years ago we could apply for a second buck tag in the district south of town here in Chinook. They gave out 200 extra tags every year. They never even had 200 applicants, so I drew a second buck tag every year. I came out here for the first time in 1974 and the non-resident license included two deer tags and an elk tag and the two tags were good for either a whitetail buck or mule deer buck in most of central and eastern Montana. I'm getting off the subject.

At any rate, the big buck mania is slowly but surely ruining deer hunting (IMO). A 5/12 year old buck should be a shooter anywhere in the country regardless of score...that's a real trophy in my book!!!

You missed my point... Yes, I did just go to SK, but I didn't buy a farm, lease land, lock everyone else out, etc. If I had my own farm, planted food plots, used every gadget under the sun, etc. and couldn't shoot a whopper buck I'd take up golf or bowling..... I wasn't complaining about Montana. I was making observations about what hunting whitetails has become in general. It's not about me complaining about people wanting to shoot big bucks.....it's what they're doing to accomplish it. Shoot, we all want to shoot big bucks but when does it become an obsession rather than a fun pastime? I know guys who work part-time jobs to go out of state to hunt and will hunt 3 or 4 states every fall.. Nothing wrong with that to a point, but several of those guys have ended up divorced. That's a lot of time away from the wives and children. Is a big buck really more important than family?

You're right....living in Montana is wonderful as far as hunting and fishing goes (if you can get access to places to hunt). It gets more difficult here every year.

OK...bash away...

first I am going to say I think HUNTING TV SHOWS< all suck and show p!ss poor examples of what hunting SHOULD be like

BUT that said,
you lime im MT a place that has millions of acres of public land to hunt

YET you state its getting harder and harder to find places to hunt? HUMM

that seems ODD to me(and yes I have hunted in MT )

the REASON folks BUY land and then spend $$$$$$$ to make it into better lands for HUNTING and or?? is, the simple FACT< like you I bet
you want to hunt GREAT places and not just HUNT!

as if all you wanted to do is HUNT< again there are millions of acres of public land in MT
problem is there NOT all great acres to hunt, its NOT a issue getting on huntable land
problem is you want to ONLY hunt GOOD/great land, that well some private person owns and , well most likely manages for better quality
I don;t think most folks BUY land and manage it with whole intentions of keeping other off it
its just a BY product of what happens when you want BETTER hunting lands, so when you have short time to hunt, you can hunt GOOD land, better odd's of being successful, and well, NOT being walked in on sme idiot that doesn't have resprt for others

SO< folks save up $$ BUY Themselves a GOOD place and well MAKE it better
that is the american way
folks that cry the most about this happening tend to be those that cannot do the samre thing due to maybe lack of $$
and I I one of them folks
if I had the $$$ I would own a NICE chunk of land, manage it for above average game populations and quality of game, and have MYSELF a great place to enjoy what I enjoy
however I cannot afford that, SO< I do what I can, I WORK hard to gain access to better private lands, or would walk in farther hunt harder on public lands
I still have NO issue finding places to hunt, there not every where as they once were, but human population is not as low as it was either!
and that is IMO< taking up way more land and places to hunt, than anyone being greedy and buying up land to keep others off
its just that by product of things that makes it seem that way

folks with lots of $$ have to spend it some out and land is a GREAT investment, if you can make it work for more ways than that, as most do, no suprise here at all
more posted signs in PA than most all other states I have been to, and we also have the largest amount of public hunting lands east of the Mississippi
again, nature of the beast! but NO one in PA< can cry about NO places to hunt either, they just all want BETTER places, and thus, come all them gadgets and silly hunting shows , teaching them all what there MAYBE missing,
Marketing at its best, counting on most hunters to be suckers too for gadgets and hype!
I am sure glad I grew up when I did and got to hunt all the great places I did as well
feel bad for the new generations, !

I could not agree more. I was just saying the same thing to my wife and brother-in-law yesterday.

The single minded emphasis on antlers will be the death of hunting in the future. Most non-hunters have no problem with hunting for meat but they do have an issue with hunting strictly for trophies. If they get to the point where the overall perception is that antlers is all anyone really cares about then they can use the ballot box to seriously impede hunting in many areas. And for those of you who are living under a rock and think it cannot be done then I point you to my native CO that used the ballot box to stop spring bear hunting and trapping all in the same election cycle.

My question is: When did hunting for meat become secondary? For me and my family that has always been the primary reason for going, not the size of antlers. It is actually kind of sad to see what it has become.

personally I think a LOT of folks started hunting for antlers a LONG time ago, its NOT really something new, , just look back at when records of things got started?
but I think TV hunting shows, if they can be called that at all, , have been the bigger down side to things, all the more so, AMMO< for the NON hunters, that see a bunch of yahoo's screaming and hollering after they shot a big MATURE buck as they always call them such ??
I also don;t get how gun and archery safety went out the window with TV shows too, always showing video for folks pointing guns and drawing bows at the cameraman?? a number one safety NO NO in my book??


BUT I do think a LOT more folks look for larger antlers and such on most things they hunt over JUST for meat
and this is honestly due to the fact so few folks rely on venison and wild game meat to live! and that too has been a LONG time since that was a MUST have to make it thru for MOST folks deal!

I personally hunted for BOTH< I wanted some meat and used my doe tags for that, I never found it hard to fill them tags almost at will, so that gave me time to hunt for NICE antlered deer, I would NOT call myself a trophy hunter, but I also didn;'t feel the need to shoot the first LEGAL buck I seen, , all the more so when I used to have 3+ months of a season to hunt and time off work to do so!


I do agree, the way so many market and SHOW hunters today, is for sure the down fall of this sport, NOT all TV hunters maybe are bad, but WOW< the few shows I see , are sad to me!
making for either spoiled brat like hunters, or why bother to hunt at all> if you don;'t have deep pockets and prime land! and GOD help you if you DON"T shoot a MATURE buck in a day or two of hunting
GOT to love to hear these guys complain and cry about being on a hunt for 3-4 days and NOT KILLING a BIG buck yet! LOL
its hunting NOT shooting, and its NOT about trophy's, its about enjoying a sport HOW YOU like, as long as its legal, and you play by the rules, I THINK we have a chance to keep things alive
just don't forget your actions speak LOUD words to the anti hunters that are out numbering us hunters more and more every yr!

Yes takling to women in the family, they are can't eat the horns, when i say I passed over small buck. Not that I am trophy hunting, but I do pass over the real small ones. So on the opposite end of that, as women trickle into it, you could have less mature bucks.

In my area of the country there are still lots of people who take small bucks, to fill the freezer. I am not agains that I had meat this year, and been lucky for awhile. But I had a long dry spell, and have had times I didn't care about size
Little whiney.

You want to hear about body weight in UP, go Y101 wesbisite, 11/15-11/30, 7eastern to around 9, and they will read off all the weights from the bars and places that check deer in. Not legally required to check deer in either.

I enjoy managing my land, playing on the tractor and running a saw. If I was rich and had 3000 acres, I would probably pay someone to help. Without guilt. Hard enough keeping down trees off my trails, in my little area.

I really enjoy trail cameras. Almost more than hunting. It sort is like it. You wait, scrolling through bunch of bird pics. and all sudden a buck pops up. If I couldn't afford cameras, I would till hunt, but I have some disposible income. Some years I get busy and don't get around to it.

Where I am from deer hunting is a big deal. Opening day is a holiday. I believe some schools still close down, like they did up until the 90s. One place I worked at they voted to use the floating holiday for opening day, this was in 2000s, and probably still do.

What does get me is men who don't hunt, or miss opening day, and are just casual about it , I am to busy this year. But I am all for guys going gonzo on it. We need hunters. As numbers fall so does our voice with the DNR. Not a problem in this part of the country now, but if numbers got to low. Kids are not getting into like they used to. My era kids did it cause it was manly.


As for posting land, mine is not posted, not many people around. But I get it, lands expensive. I don't like people either.

Before my time, but i have read the white tail craze started around the 70s. They were just meat, and deer camp experience. Then you had Larry on the cover of whatever magazine it was. Maybe the horn craze has gone up, but numbers have gone down.

What does irk me, is the trophy hunters who think they are more important. They act like you shot their future buck, if you shoot a little one. All the whining about predators, from folks that don't really get out that much or make an effort.


I really hate resticted antlers. I don't need the government telling me how big my buck has to be. Make criminals out of folks who misjudge, or encourage dumping the animal .

What I like about white tail, is you can go every year. No lottery for bucks. You can do it every year. The western states, where you can't hunt every year, would be weird for me. Though I realize elk produce a lot of meat, same with bigger stuff in Canada and AK.

tatonka, at first i thought you were from Pa. thats what its like here,too. t. shaffer and i grew up in the same town here in Pa. i dont hunt for horns as they cant be used for anything other then to put on a wall. there is a lot and i mean a lot of posted ground in my area. game lands are getting crowded as the hunters that cant find open land to hunt are going there. for the past 5 or 10 years the game commission has been complaining of license numbers dropping. wonder why. guess it takes some people w while to smarten up.

Not sure it is smarten up thing. That is like saying you are more import then the next guy. I am in the middle. I would like a trophy, I eat them. Plus it is the wrong attitude, I sometimes feel after putting in the effort I just want something, or my ego

In talking to different people who find out I hunt, I've found that non-hunters are all over the board on hunting. Some have hunters in their families and tend to be more supportive. Some aren't opposed to hunting but want to make sure you're using the meat and not wasting it. A lot of people seem to think that a trophy hunter only keeps the horns and wastes the meat. Most people have no idea about health of a herd or why you would want to remove the older animals before they die a cruel death by starvation, etc. I agree that a lot of shows don't represent the hunting that most of us do. But I can't recall a single non-hunter bring up the topic of some hunting show that he or she watched. From what I've observed, most non-hunters seem to have developed their opinions based on other peoples' statement and feelings. IOW, sound bites and emotions. Some are willing to talk and learn more about hunting. Some aren't. Just the way it is.

Never had a person in the midwest question if I was eating deer. Bears I have.

yes sir mr.slim & i grew up in the same small hometown & i can't tell you how back in the 70's we had all the available property to hunt on. & it was never crowded either. alot of good times & memories were from that era. now today everything is being posted or leased. not bad mouthing farmers but why all of a sudden are the farmers kids charging a arm & a leg to hunrt on there parents property? yes for the added income but why are they saying cash only? you know they are not claiming it on their taxes.yeah i know it's only a couple of grand but if i was to do something like that i would get caught & pay a hefty fine .like i said it's becoming a rich man's sport.

[QUOTE=t.shaffer;4348293? you know they are not claiming it on their taxes.yeah i know it's only a couple of grandrt.[/QUOTE]
Good for them. I am tired of being taxed on every single thing I do.



Interesting you see more people know. They say less people hunt. I am from an area with large amounts of state and national forest, plus corporate. UP really is sportsman paradise compared to what some people have.

I have my own land, but I would say most, or many, people have their camp on their own land but hunt public. Maybe more out of towners own land. I still hunt public some, and every year I tell myself I should be hunt more public land, to see different deer than are at my place.

Many people up here illegally leave blinds up for decades on public land. But so few people, I don't consider it an issue.


As less people hunt, this may simply work itself out.

In many states, a hunter can only take one antlered deer and multiple doe. In my experience, bucks with large racks also have large bodies.Shooting the freezer full of mature doe, plus one large bodied, large antlered buck sure seems to make sense - and fits the legal restriction of many states.

I might turn biology on your argument: it's proven that taking immature deer - filling the freezer by being less selective in how you fill your tags - is damaging to deer population both in quantity and quality. So my neighbors who tout themselves as "meat hunters," who shoot any deer they see walking to fill their freezers, are doing statistically far more irresponsible damage to the deer population than those of us who selectively pick off mature, big bodied, big bodied bucks, and mature doe who have already produced multiple seasons.

"Rack records" have been on the books a very, very long time. We've recognized large bucks by inches rather than pounds since before WWII in many states, and it's impossible to say that there isn't an incentive to harvest a large buck. But it's asinine to pretend the nutrition and genetics which yield big racks doesn't also yield big bodies.

Pretty good points.

In keeping with what Nomercy said here in Vermont we were way behind many of the leader states that elected to go with antler restriction. When we finally did restrict the taking of small antlered bucks it wasn't a biologically sound formula and they elected to not allow spikes to be taken except for youth hunters in the special weekend. Now most states that started that have reversed since it has been proven that over time the genetics suffer since the spikes are saved but the bigger antlered yearlings with 3 to 8 points are harvested. Here in Vermont where the AR restrictions were supposed to be a 5 year study has gone on to 13 years. The Department biologists are calling to remove the spike ban as a non biological restriction but the powers that govern whitetail deer have refused to move. Slow to implement and slow to remove. That is the path that our pathetic Fish and Wildlife Department follows. Recently I called complaining that they didn't remove the metal docks at all of the northern Vermont fish accesses. Many were frozen in embedded with 6" of new ice. They sent out an excavator to break up the ice and damaged all the docks trying to get them out. Our tax dollars in addition to Dingle Johnson Federal funds pays for these accesses and the docks. No wonder many Vermonters quit even buying a license and go elsewhere.

I think the whole idea that its all about antlers is quite overblown.

When I run into a hunting buddy they ask me if I'm seeing any good bucks. They don't ask me "been seeing any doe?" but we all kill and eat more doe than bucks

I killed a doe 2 days ago with my muzzle loader and she is hanging in the yard right now. She and another doe will make up a lot of my families meat intake for the year and we love the whole process. I had a lot of fun this weekend hunting and and got a few text from close friends asking if I did any good and I responded "yeah I shot a big doe" and they said "nice" and the conversation was over.

What else is there to talk about? Bucks come with interesting stories and history and pursuit and an average doe just don't.

I really enjoyed my muzzleloader hunt and was after a fat doe for my families table. Its part of my lifestyle and something I will pass down and hope my daughter passes down but at the end of the day its a doe.....I don't even know if Ive seen her before, I would have shot any one of 20 doe just like her, she walked right out of the timber to feed in the open in the broad daylight and I shot her. I don't mean that one deer is really more special than the other but when I shoot an average doe there really isn't much of a story to tell.

I'm what a lot of people would label a "trophy hunter" because I love the challenge of pursuing an old mature buck and often a specific animal and when I get one I tell you all the story and show you pictures because its interesting but the truth is I shoot 2-5 doe for every 1 buck. Its a big part of my families culture. We do it all, we wouldn't have it any other way, and we enjoy it very much in house but how much do any of you really care about the story of me shooting an average doe 2 days ago? There is really just not much story to tell.

We fish alot also and again its a big part of our culture and we very much enjoy going out on the lake and catching a good mess of average crappie for dinner but the handful of 15 inchers are the ones I'll tell stories about because nobody wants to here a story about my 9 inch crappie I caught and ate

Here you go guys.

Wife told me we needed some more meat so I went and setup with my muzzle loader where Ive been seeing some doe. This one walked out about 20 minutes before last shoot light and I shot her. Now she is hanging out in the yard and we are going to butcher and eat her

Discuss(Story would probably score huge ratings on TV)

Where I am at, you can shoot 2 bucks, but no does.

What? Nobody wants to discuss my awesome doe story?

I agree with you OP, deer hunting has really changed. I hunt for the trophy "freezer deer" on a small parcel my wife and purchased in WI about 6 years ago. Prior to that 40+ years on mostly public land, with some private back in the 70's. Never really gave a poop about antlers. While I will shoot a buck if/when one presents a clean shot, I mainly hunt for the does. This season I was given 1 Buck and 5 antlerless tags, and was fortunate to bag 3 really nice does. Freezer's filled and life is good! As my Dad would say, "you can't eat antlers", he's gone now, but his words still ring true for me.

Be well folks

Looks like we both kinda think alike when it. ;)

I will. Sounds like a great hunt. Cleanly taken game and meat for the table. Perfect way to end it. I did pretty much the same thing myself:

I hunt for meat and pretty much shoot any deer that isn't a fawn when I see them. We have a lot of deer where I hunt and you can take an unlimited number of does each year but only 1 buck. My buddy only wants to shoot big deer and especially big bucks. Well I have 4 deer in my freezer and he has one. That one was not a big buck either. He ended up settling on the last weekend.

As for deer farms that grow these bucks with ridiculous antlers that look like chandeliers....no thanks. If every buck you see is a shooter then it seems like it would make hunting them anti-climactic. Where I hunt if you saw a 150" deer, that might be the biggest one taken there in some time.

I would rather shoot a doe than a small buck, if we can shoot does. At my house, I dont care, I don't have enough land to manage. At camp, I shoot 6 and up. Which is a pretty low bar. Not that I havn't shot smaller. I have been lucky for awhile, so not going without. Previous two years, say 2 bucks. This year a few little and 6 I shot.

I eat them, but I also try to manage a bit. I am against government forcing it. I am certainly not going to look down my noise at someone who shoots a big buck. And I call a little BS on the horn don't matter. Darn near any guy, who would get a big one, would be excited. No one shoots big one, and says, can't eat the horns.




The down staters that spend $$$ on land, are the ones that seem to be bothered by people shooting small ones, that they feel should be their big one someday. They also say it cost $$$ to hunt and no one is saving money. Not saying I am making money on the meat. But I do know people that have the same rifle for years, and spend very little money. Farm country whee you can shoot a few, probably do come out a head.

Don't get me wrong it was a great hunt. It just doesn't spur much conversation and certainly won't keep a TV show on the air. I personally think its a bigger problem that hunting has become more about the killing than the hunting no matter the animal.

Most parents that take their kids hunting are not even teaching them how to hunt but just how to kill. Most TV shows don't even show the hunting, just the killing.

and the biggest problem for hunting is like usual......money.

Anyway my original point is I think lots and lots of people still hunt and enjoy themselves without obsessing over antlers. They just aren't as eager to jump online or phone a buddy to tell the story about shooting another average doe.

I enjoyed your doe story! :)

Definitely agree re: most of the hunting shows. I wish they would focus more on technique and education (scouting, habits, explaining why they are doing certain things, etc) rather than just emptying a big bag of feed corn 70 yards from a custom built heated blind and gunning down the largest buck in a herd of 30 deer. The bow hunting shows are a little better, but not by much.

They would much rather sell you a sponsors product than teach you technique for free.

In their defense though that is probably just how you have to do it to stay employed as a television hunter.

It is what it is

I don't have cable so I don't know what they show really. But showing a guy walking or sitting for hours, is not entertaining TV. Yes they could narrate about the location and why they chose it.

I was going to go the opposite again of what is said here. It is killing. But people will call it harvest or such. Something soft. Also maybe its regional, but I don't get the impression at all that people are only interested in the kill. I have joked that saying it is all about the hunt, is making excuses before the season even starts.

Also around here it is still a big social event. Deer camps full, hunters staying at bars later then they should.

I agree with a lot above here, I also sort of find many shows are NOT about killing or harvesting but almost all maybe just about SHOOTING more than anything
setting up in a big blind with creature comforts almost as if at home, on prime lands, over prime food plots(or inside woods of them)
and then a animal walks out, the SHOOTER many times ASKS the cameraman HOW far is it, as if its there JOB to tell them range of animal
and then they shoot, said animal
then hoop and holler about what a great hunter they are and SHOT and kill they just made
and got to love how many times they shoot a animal in mid day and YET don;'t find it till dark, and claim it only ran a few yards and died LOL next get into a super long range craze we have going, about shooting hundreds of yards and then some
and WHERE is the skills here in HUNTING< NONE IMO< its more about SHOOTING SKILLS Now
and don;'t get em wrong I am NOT against shooting far, been a 1,000 yard shooter since the late 80's, and learned from some of the best out there and PUT thousands of rounds and time in to learn how to
But I still don't call shooting an animal real far out there HUNTING SKILLS, its shooting skills at some point over ability to hunt things!
I also agree if its legal, well,we really shouldn;t bash too hard as anti hunters are already outnumbering us hunters/shooters as is
I just think older HUNTERS that grew up learning how to read sign, track , spend tons of time LEARNING how the animals we hunted , lived and survived and thrived, so we could find there ANY where they lived and NOT just on food plots and prime lands
find modern hunters , maybe SPOILED and well, lacking skills we earned the hard way
its a modern world, where so few really LEARN anything the hard way, its all about short cuts and just knowing enough to get BY anymore IMO
the less anyone seems to have to do to do anything, the better they seem to think it is.
and maybe for some of us older folks, we, valued all our mistakes we made along the way to becoming what WE feel makes us a REAL hunter, over some of these modern day shooters! that are sponsored by so many, and almost handed prime lands , with a lot of the scouting and work done by others, where they just seem to have to show up, and or where killing a deer maybe isn;'t so hard, as finding one on your own in an unknown area! where them hard earned skills start to come out more and I BET to those of us that have them, when we DO kill, we feel we earned things more, even if the difference between the two is small, as the name of the game I guess to most hunters is to be successful
and what every gets you there and again is LEGAL
should be OK
it will never be my style but I am old school, and I also don;t get MOST of the things today's generation feel so strongly about needing to do, or how they wish to do it
Just part of getting old I guess LOL

No one wants to watch me staring off into space for hours or walking aimlessly through the woods.

I would expect a deer show to show deer. They don't making movies about ugly cars,and ugly women.

if I do see pics of game, it's nice to prime examples. It's tv. Same in real world, no one comes out of the bar to see a spike.

I don't know what the content is, if they give any good advice. It's tv.

Though I much prefer dragging a smallish buck up a mountain than a big bruiser, I'm more concerned about the lack of quality antlered bucks on public hunting land here in Maryland.

Even though Maryland has certain antlered restrictions on harvesting whitetail bucks, it'll never be enough, as long as the Maryland DNR is in cahoots with the automobile insurance industry; that wants the deer herds annihilated because of deer/automobile collisions.

The way the Maryland DNR pursues with this ongoing devious trade-off with the automobile insurance industry....is that they schedule early muzzleloader seasons before the deer even have a chance to breed. I'm okay with early archery seasons...but with muzzleloaders --- unh-unh.

"Even though Maryland has certain antlered restrictions on harvesting whitetail bucks, it'll never be enough, as long as the Maryland DNR is in cahoots with the automobile insurance industry; that wants the deer herds annihilated because of deer/automobile collisions."


The above is a big fat lie, perpetrated by people who do not have a clue about what they are talking about, did I say it is a lie. Insurance companies do not lobby state game agencies to reduce deer herds, why would they. If they start losing an unacceptable amount of money through deer vehicle collisions, they just increase rates for the policies. This same nonsense has been bandied about in PA for years as well by people who just think they have to create a reason for there not being enough deer for them to be happy. It is not true, it is nonsense and a load of BS. The only thing devious thing going on is the snake oil salesman trying to sell fake information. BTW, did I mention it is a lie?

So OT, was it the game commission or the insurance companies that released all the coyote, mountain lions, and big feet?

-Jake