Same deer shot by two hunters
 

Hey all, brand new to the forum. I've been hunting in Vermont for 7 years now, taken two deer over that time. This past weekend during our muzzleloader season, I was hunting a distant relative's property for the first time. One other gentleman was hunting there as well whom I actually bumped into on my way through the woods.

Around 8:30am, I had a line of doe come through and I placed a shot on the largest one I saw. About 60 seconds later I heard a shot presumably from the other hunter. As I got up to track the doe, I came upon him standing with the deer down about 50 yards from where I had shot.

My shot was a little far back, puncturing the diaphram and grazed the stomach from what I could tell. (Maybe a bit of lung? There was a pretty heavy bright blood trail) His shot was on the spine at the base of the neck.

We were both unsure what to do next. After a friendly conversation, dressing the deer together, and some hem and hawing, I decided to offer up the deer for him to tag.

Seems that this is a coin toss situation. Some people I talk to say first blood should take the harvest (within a reasonable distance), others say kill shot. I'm curious of your folks' input!

I'd say being your first time on the property you handled it properly.

I'd try to open up some communication the other guy so it don't happen again.

oh that's your deer.But both being grown men I think y'all can work it out..he should have enough class to admit he was just shortening your tracking job..now..hypothetically if that had been a trophy buck , and I were in your position, we might have an issue:bash:

DavidG the First bullet in a deer doesn't make it yours, if it is still moving through the woods and not down it can still be legally put down by another hunter. The law says the deer belongs to the person who inflicts the mortal wound which allows them to take possession. In this case, it was the 2nd hunter who did that. Now I have no problem with them working it out the way they did but the 2nd guy would have had every right to tag the deer and it wasn't his deer, as you said..

hi OT..not doubting what you're saying about the law as I know you are affiliated w/ dnr...don't know where you are but in Georgia , it doesn't talk about that in our regs.. and I also know there are laws that aren't in the regs you get over the counter @ wally world.. and I also know it is a whole different world up north .. if you don't do nothin but watch n. woods law on tv u know that;)

I've never seen it with a deer but have seen it with elk. Probably best to work it out on a case by case basis. After all there is a world of difference between a muscle hit or a gut shot where an animal can cover distance and a lung shot with a 200 yard dash. Like I said, case by case basis but speaking personally I'd have no issue letting the other guy keep it. That just means more hunting time for the Chief.

great point and I have to say a law like OT said would be a tiebreaker..that's good .. sounds like the op made a lethal shot and I think he should have it , but in other cases we'd have to bring in a veterinary surgeon and diagnose.. hey royal k keep your tag and go get'em...ain't this fun

I agree with oldtimr
typically its the last shot in it that gets it
and I agree with Flags, I just get to hunt more then too!
I have been on the other side of this a few times over the yrs
where a guy shot a deer, deer ran, and ended up where I could see it, and laid down
I waited for guy to show up tracking deer,(10+ minutes) and they never came,(one time even seen them just walk the other way,a nd I even yelled to them where the deer was at?)
so I ended up shooting them and using my tag on a deer I really didn;t want,
even did this once on a very expensive hunt in Alberta Canada!, but right thing to do for ME was put the animal down and ends its suffering!!

Ive been on both sides with nice bucks both times and both times I let the other guy have the deer.

Like I said earlier if you are sharing private property and you are the new guy make sure you are not just 50 yards away from others. It sounds like things went pretty well IMO.

The deer might be legally yours but the last thing you want is to show up for the first time, setup 50 yards from the guy that has been hunting there and have a big stink over a deer.

All good points, I agree with each of them. In my defense, this hunter did actually move closer to me than where I originally ran into him. (not sure why)

Each scenario is certainly a case by case basis, especially since there's no regulation that I can find up here in VT. I do believe I would have had no trouble recovering the deer with my first shot, and if my situation and the other hunter's were reversed, I would've had no hesitation giving up the deer as the 2nd shooter.

Regardless, at the end of the day there was no argument and the deer was harvested quickly. It also built a good relationship for the next time I hunt at that location.

Yep, I'd leave it at that and be glad it went that well.

There should have been better communication in the first place between everybody. The landowner, the other guy and yourself but thats over now and it went pretty well so now I'd just initiate better communication from now on. Not just because of shooting the same deer but because its a lot safer when your hunting around other people to have an idea of where they are and them have an idea of where you are.

I saw something about 18/20 years ago that showed me a 16 year old had some good parenting. I used to hunt a property that was a couple hundred acres of woods and Christmas tree farm. It was owned by the folks who own Coleman stove and gas lights. The manager of the property was a deputy at one time so a bunch of game commission folks were invited to hunt there in doe season to knock back the deer population, there usually were about 8 of us. We would do short silent drives alternating drivers and standers. One year their was a 16 yeard old boy hunting with us. We ended a drive and took a break in a christmas tree field along rt 501. While we were standing there talking we saw a doe on the other side of the road in the woods. It was just standing there. The boy and I walked across the road and stood at the gaurd cables looking at the doe that looked wounded by the way it was standing there. I told the boy to go ahead and take the deer and he put it on the ground with a good shot. We walked down to the deer and saw it had been gut shot. The boy was filling out his tag when an elderly man came hurrying down the steep wooded hill towards us and stopped by the deer. He told us he had been tracking the deer for over a quarter mile. The old boy was obviously worn out and over heated from following that deer for quite a while. The boy told the old guy it was his deer and to go ahead and tag the deer and he helped him gut the doe. After we left I told the boy that what he did was very adult for a 16 year old and a nice thing to do. The elderly man never would have caught up to that deer because he was just pushing it further and further away from him. There are not many men let alone 16 year old lads who would have done what he did.

Which is sad because it should be a no brainer.

2 sides to this story
one the BOY shot and killed a deer and didn;t tag it?
so isn't that an illegal kill?
according to the LETTER of the law?

I agree it was the old man's deer, but legally??? that should be an illegal kill NO??

Agree, kill shot gets the meat

But myself, I would have split it with the other hunter

No mrbbb it was not an illegal kill, it was obvious the animal was wounded by the old man. The boy was in the process of filling out his tag When he showed up on the scene and a decision was made by the boy to concede the deer belonged to the old man. They both had a bullet in the deer. The person who tags the deer is the legal possessor of the animal, the old man tagged the deer which made it legally his. Quite frankly I was proud of the boy and I never met him before that day.

I am sorry but I will have to dis agree, and know wardens that will too!
IF someone shoots and KILL a LIVE animal, its a KILL, and HE is supposed to tag it
that is how MANY fathers get arrested in PA for them shooting a deer and using there kids tag(even is said kid is with them
the hunting rules I read do NOT say, who tags the deer gets it, its WHO kills it that is legally responsible to TAG it
I call this a GREY area in life, but legally is legally, and the right thing to do again isn't always the LEGAL thing to do
if deer was alive when the kid shot it and dead afterwards, well KID killed the deer NOT the old guy
granted the deer might have died from old mans shot, but HE didn't kill it
he also tagged a deer he DIDN"T kill
by letter of the law, IF push came to shove

I;'m glad it went the way it did, but laws are laws!

after all the BOY killed the deer NOT knowing the guy was even coming??

Yeah I'd say you are wrong, both hunters shot the deer then the deer died. I think you are way over analyzing.

Based on comments regarding law-enforcement presence during that hunt I'd offer that if anything was amiss it would have been addressed properly. Kudos to that boy.

I again said I think boy did right thing, but right thing isn';t always legal!
I cannot shoot a deer and let someone else tag it
BOY shot deer NOT knowing someone was coming, so he CHOSE to kill it
he killed it, legally and legally , in this case he GAVE said deer away
that is NOT really legal
we just sort of addressed this in other post, its who ever kills deer that its THERE deer

and IF law enforcement was there or not, that means little In the law, many law enforcement officers have been guilty of breaking the law too
If it was a mercy kill, due to a wounded animal and dispatching it to end its suffering, that SHOULD have been done by said law enforcement, not a hunter looking to fill a tag

in life there are GREY area's we all dip into and not saying otherwise
but, double standards exist in the world and IMO this is one of them
I know folks that have been fined for tagging a deer they DIDN"T kill
if you chose to KILL something, its YOUR"S ,. NO
as again this kid did NOT know someone was coming he chose to kill it as HIS deer,
many folks would love to shoot more than one deer a yr, this is why the laws are, YOU kill it YOU tag it!
not hating on the boy, just saying
in life some times the RIGHT thing and legal thing are NOT the same!
had story not been told NO one but those there would know?
Mum's the word sometime in life!

Rockport is correct and so is C-tom. Had the action not been legal I would not have allowed it. Are you arguing for the sake of argument or what. You sure aren't arguing from the standpoint of of the law, just your opinion which is incorrect. Two men each shot the same deer at different times. They came together over the body of the deer and came to a decision as to whose deer it should be and that person tagged the deer making it legally his. It is that simple, don't over analyze a simple situation.

defend it all you like, I am NOT arguing just stating a fact
last person that shoots and KILLS it, is the person that KILLED it

if they decide to NOT tag it and let the other person tag it, that there call not the law's side of things
if these were two strangers and FIGHTING over a BIG buck , the law would come down to LAST person that shot and KILLED it.

IF I shoot a person and there STILL alive, and someone else shoots them and KILLS them(extreme example here)
one if guilty of shooting person one is guilty of murdering them!
you call it as you like
but just cause you let it go, doesn't again MEAN it was legally 100% here!
your human as are rest of us, we something do whats right and again NOT legal!
this is a super trivial deal IMO, but doesn't change FACTS or laws!

Glad to see a good old fashioned piddle-squat break out. It's a faint whiff of old times on here.

:bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash: Some people just can't be fixed.

Always a slippery slope. I have been involved with a similar thing and ended up with the deer. I hit a buck with my bow through the boiler works and the deer ran right up to another hunter in a tree stand about 150 yds away. I was following the ample blood trail with a full pass through and saw him come out of his stand and walked up to the deer just as I got there. He did have an arrow into it but it was sticking out of his chest but in a direction that indicated he shot it when it was down. There wasn't much of an argument on who owned the deer. Around these parts local custom is whomever put the lethal shot in gets the deer. I have taken a limping deer previously wounded in the leg. Nobody came along and I tagged the buck but in that case my shot was certainly the killing shot. In some areas I have hunted local customs say first shot gets the deer but that IMO leaves a lot of gray area as indicated by my story. I have zero tolerance for anyone who uses another persons tag to justify killing an animal unless it is legal such as what is allowed in a party hunting state. Here in Vermont it is not. I ended a friendship recently with a neighbor who did a similar thing.

Not all wounded deer drop right away. Bad shots do happen. Once on the last day of the rifle season in a raging snow storm I hunted alone in a vast wilderness area in northern Vermont. I was about 1/2 mile from my truck and a nice buck was picking through the swamp about 80 yds away. I settled in made the shot and saw the deer was hit but it quickly ran out of sight. There was 6" of fresh snow so I took off tracking it. The snow from where it bedded showed my shot had been too far forward on a quartering deer breaking one shoulder. It was 7 am and I took off after the deer. The blood trail was good and I was confident I would catch up to the animal. A mile passed and I did jump it a couple of times but couldn't get a shot off. At around 2 pm I finally did get the chance to shoot it when it was bedded and looking at the GPS showed I was 5 miles away from the truck and it was all uphill. I dragged it out to a road by dark that showed on the GPS and thankfully a passing truck gave me and my buck a ride back to my truck. I was guilty of making a bad shot and that was on me. I did follow up with getting the deer but if someone else had killed it I would have certainly given it to them. That deer was probably going to eventually die but was fair game for anyone else IMO.

You do know that OT used to be a warden right? If he says it is within the law, then it is. Have you ever been a game warden? Are you being obtuse merely for the sake of being obtuse?

FLAGS< YES I know he used to be a be warden, and I have also known game wardens that broke the law too, after all they are only human, unless you think there NOT!
I am NOT trying to be anything but saying actual facts

person that KILLED the deer it the killer, and its HIS job LEGALLY to tag it

I cannot go shoot a deer and have a buddy tag it and me keep hunting

as I said again and maybe you folks just DON"T get it
I agreed the kid did the right THING, my point is it wasn't the legal thing and that's all

we ALL break laws on a regular basis I bet, doesn't mean we all get fined or arrested for doing so
and a SIMPLE example is, SPEEDING
I bet MOST folks do NOT follow every POSTED SPEED LIMIT sigh to a T at ALL times,
does it make us legal to NOT follow it
NO we ARE breaking the LAW
does law enforcement have the OPTION to look the other way, and use there discretion, YUP 100% they can do so, and do every day !

BUT doesn't change the fact we broke the law!
IF they WISHED to press the issue, we would have a fine, and would BE OUR Fault!
keep defending this all you like, I ain't saying kid did the wrong thing ethically, just did the wrong ting legally!
and a warden allowed it, MOST LIKELY using his discretion to ALLOW the tag to be passed on!
but had the warden NOT have been there , it again was legally a KILL by the KID and should have been HIS tag used
he STILL could have given the deer to the GUY if he wanted to!
and NOT been able to keep hunting for a second deer to KILL!

Get over yourself with your nonsense. Your problem is you dug yourself a hole and now you don't know how to climb out of it and save face so you just keep digging. When you go through a year of training and 32 years of working with the law, teaching the law to other officers and writing laws and regulations, then perhaps you can tell me what a violation of the Game and Wildlife Code the law is. I tied to be nice about it, but enough is enough.

I would think the defining issue would be intent. When a WCO investigates a case the overall intent of the person should have a bearing on the outcome. It is the WCO's duty to decide if the action taken was within the parameters of the law or a poaching violation. I have known quite a few wardens over the years and they are among the most dedicated outdoors men and women around. They all love to hunt but are dedicated to their jobs and give that up to protect the public domain for all of us. IMO putting a mortally wounded animal out of it's misery is far different than playing around with tags to keep one person hunting. MRBB it looks to me like you are playing the devil's advocate here and just arguing for the sake of it.

The point is you clearly stated what happened was illegal. The warden on the forum said what the kid in his scenario did was not illegal. You immediately disagreed despite you never being a warden. I am well aware there are wardens that break laws, just like there are cops that break laws. But that is a different subject.

Telling OT that he knows nothing about game laws despite being a warden is like telling me I know nothing about the navy despite being a retired navy chief. It highlights your folly.

well again MY view is my view, I do NOT fell I dug a hole, I gave honest example's of things that show how I and why I have my view , if you all wish to NOT see things ,
and just wish to keep saying same crap without hearing what I an showing?
well then so be it I could care less this is a silly subject
and Oltimr I have always been nice to you and wasn't trying to NO be here
we are ALL human and we can ALL make mistakes
just cause someone is at ANY job for a LONG time still doesn't mean they cannot make a mistake
and again I know for a FACT game wardens can make mistakes in PA
I been taken to court by them when I sold hunting lic's and they TRIED to tell me I sold them wrong, and when things went to court I won, due to the DIDN"T know there own rules
the JUDGE even told them to READ there rule book before taking folk's to court and wasting HIS time and the courts!
SO, Game wardens are NOT perfect

3 yrs ago I had one tell me he wasn't allowed to ASK hunters questions?
and added he was a 20 yr warden and KNEW more than me!

SO<human, we all are and some times WE all make mistakes
me included, but I stand by my view here 100%

well I never said OT didn;'t know the law
so NOT sure where you got that from

even you just said law enforcement can and do break the law?
SO what OT couldn;'t have made a mistake in things??

AGAIN, GAME WARDENS as law enforcement can use discretion, and make a judgement call
but the fact still remains the action done, is the action done, whether or not they choose to dis miss the action and NOT follow up with the law broken is THERE call
but law was still broken

would you want to be telling other hunters its OK to kill; a deer and then allow someone else to tag it, so they can keep hunting?/

I bet this answer is NO ??

Not one person on this thread has even alluded to such a thing. I suggest you go back to the OP. This thread is about 2 hunters each putting a hole in a deer and then trying to figure out who the deer belongs to. Only one of them can legally tag it so one of them will get to continue to hunt. What you're talking about and continue to cry about is a completely different set of circumstances.

In OT's scenario there was a wounded deer that was finished off shortly before the first hunter tracked it down. The youngster in question allowed the first hunter to tag it. OT was there and said that the action was perfectly legal. Personally I would have done the same thing and then continued to hunt.

Look at all the posts on this thread. Only you seem to be arguing about something the thread isn't about. Now you can start a new thread along that topic line and see what happens. Problem is you'll probably be too stubborn to do so.

I agree with mrbb.

What if the old man never showed up??

Then the kid would have tagged and taken the deer?

rogers, do you have a reading comprehension problem? I clearly said the boy was starting fill out his tag when the old guy came puffing down the hill to the deer, obviously trailing it. "The boy was filling out his tag when an elderly man came hurrying down the steep wooded hill towards us and stopped by the deer. He told us he had been tracking the deer for over a quarter mile." How freaking hard is this to understand by reasonable people?? If no one showed up the kid would have finished tagging the deer and that would have been that.

its works both ways Oldtimr
the fact is the boy planned to kill and tag deer, he was HUNTING< had NO clue guy was coming after deer, he KILLED it thinking it was HIS deer

things changed when other guy showed up
BUT BOY killed the deer
NOT the other hunter
its rather simple here
I again, CANNOT shoot a deer and have someone else tag it

YOU did NOT say in your story you were ACTING as a GAME warden and MAKING the call
you were just hunting
you even said it was the BOY that made the decision without you having to do anything

and last , and MY last post here
I said all along I think the RIGHT thing to have done was let the first shooter have the deer
but right and LEGAL are NOT always the same things
I am DONE here with this,. its as silly topic that will NEVER win either way, as unless this went to court, there is NO right or wrong as the issue was never pressed legally to find out
me NOT a warden or you being an EX one, has NO meaning here
a JUDGE would have to decide the case if it went that far(doubt it ever would)
Game wardens MAKE mistake, and its NOT that un common
a few yrs back a LONG time one went on WNEP PA's PA hunting show the outdoors show(forget exact name at this writing, sure oldtilmr knows the show I am talking about here)
and stated it was against the law to have more than 3 rounds in a rifle in deer season
which was dead wrong, and again a LONG time warden said it on TV
and they ended up doing a update to clear HIS mistake up, and that one was on TV here?
so, NO one is perfect!

and I":M out of this conversation, feel free to bash on me all you like
I'm done here

How do you determine who killed the deer if 2 hunters made lethal shots before the deer died?

Chicken or egg?lol