A 20 yeah I agree, A 12 you can add 50 yards fairly easily and possibly stretch the difference to 75 yards with a good amount of range time. That's a fairly large amount of momentum difference between a 12 and a 20.

Also hunting in NCPA mostly for bear for over 50 years from what I recall I've used a Rem 760 (308), Ruger 77 (300 Win Mag), Marlin 336 (35 Rem), Marlin 1895 Guide Gun (45-70) and Tikka T3 lite (30-06) and even a .58 caliber percussion lock muzzleloader. Out of these my Guide Gun 45-70 is my favorite. Plenty accurate, enough thump for the biggest bear, and easy tote around climbing those steep hillsides.

As far as killing the animal sure they'll both do that but for the average guy accuracy is sketchy at those ranges...It don't take much wind to get those slugs moving around.

It can be done but its a poor choice if CF rifles are an option.

looks like they will be legal next year. But, the last thing i want to do is carry a 10pound gun crawling through Rhododendron and huckleberry....ill stick to bolts and levers in this niche

Having hunted in heavy thick PA cover like you describe for a lot of years, as well as an owner and avid user of AR platforms for hog hunting, I 100% agree with you there!

That's my vote in a nutshell also ............... why I brought mine. :wave:

northeast PA. "biggest bears in the world".
Oh just to funny my side is hurting from the laughing.


Guess this kid don't get out much.


:D Al

Actually Ooper, if the "kid" is talking about black bears which we all know he is he isn't wrong. http://www.petersenshunting.com/gall...s-of-all-time/
A bit of research on the 20 biggest black bears of all time by B&C - bears shot in PA came in at the following positions: #19, 18, 17, 15 13, 12, 9, 8, 6, 3 & 2. And by the way the #1 bear skull was found in Utah. So that makes the #2 & 3 bears the largest ever killed by hunters!
So 11 of the 20 biggest black bears ever came from PA. I'd say that's a pretty good record.

Yep and they are getting bigger. NE and NC Pa is home to some pretty dang large blackies. PA doesn't allow baiting or running dogs for Bear so getting on the smarter adults is difficult. I don't black bear hunt anymore, haven't for many years and as usual, if you aren't hunting for them, you see them a lot more! Kinda like if you are squirrel hunting and not deer, you see a ton of deer! If deer hunting and not squirrel, you see 10000000 squirrels.

I'm pretty sure that NC has the biggest average body weight. The bear there don't hibernate and feed all year long. PA has kicked out some huge bear but I'm betting the average NC bruin will outweigh the average PA bruin. For what it is worth record scores on bear are done by measuring the skull and not by body weight. A bear with a big skull doesn't necessarily equate to a bear with a big body.