dogbone13

there are quite a few of you that are bent out of shape about my placement of shots on deer.

I don't care where you choose to shoot them at or how far you plot a course for a tracking job after the shot.

I explained what I do and you cant except the fact of what I do has been successful for me. I haven't told you or asked you to shoot deer where I do, or with the same caliber/ gun. what you use and where you shoot them at is your business and where I shoot mine at is my business.

now if I or anyone else is shooting an animal and it is not being recovered no matter where shot placement is then yes that is an issue.

Topgun 3006

Gentlemen members---This is the same member that made his first post just 6 weeks ago stating that buckshot is good out to 70 yards on deer and then tried to do the same thing he is here by "schooling us" on how good and knowledgeable he is, LOL! IMHO I have to agree 100% with sh54 that people like this aren't really worth discussing much of anything with when they can't see the forest for the trees and are the only one in the room that does what they do because they are the only one that's correct on the subject!

PS To dogbone13: FYI I have never had more than one animal go even 30 yards that was shot in the lungs or shoulder and he was hit a little far back at an angle and the shot took out his liver. I got out of my ground blind and he was down only 50 yards from the stand, but jumped up as I went over to him and he went through some thick stuff for about 100 yards leaving a blood trail that Stevie Wonder could have followed!

flags

It really has very little to do with marksmanship. It isn't the size of the target, it is the mobility of the target. Deer and other game don't stand still for long. Since they are prey animals they are always on the lookout. From the time you squeeze the trigger the target may move before the bullet gets there. So you can hold perfectly and still blow the shot due to movement that you have no control over .

I know a little about shooting with more than 25 years active duty, 9 combat deployments and expert qualifications in 7 different weapon platforms. I don't know how many rounds of ammo I have fired in my life but some of the gun shoots I took part in went through 750,000 rounds in 2 days on the range and I shot an M-4 out to 800 yds. There is s reason the military teaches people to chest shoot the enemy. Bigger target and less movement. Period.

super_hunt54

lol...Only reason I can give a pretty clear estimate of round count is because of my stringent reloading logs. Lord knows how many rounds I sent during training a Lejeune.

zrexpilot

kinetic energy never killed a thing, the one and only thing dependent on lethality is the wound channel. dump 3000ft/lbs of KE in the guts or hind quarter and good luck finding your deer, dump 45lbs of KE via a broad head into the lungs and you will get a quick recovery, hydrostatic shock is an oxymoron shock could not be static, its more like hydraulic pressure, there is no shock wave, thats impossible.
the wound channel is all that matters, bigger bullets and bigger expanded diameters leave bigger wound channels, and a complete pass through is the biggest wound channel you can get with a specified bullet

dogbone13

again I was speaking from experience and you CAN NOT except the fact of what works for someone else with great success being OK.

it is absolutely your way or NO way.
if you don't agree with what I said works for me or has worked for me fine you don't have to as I haven't asked you to try anything I have accomplished.

a forum is for suggestions, questions, answers, opinions, etc...
not my way is the only way or I haven't done it so it cant be true. etc...

Get over it and accept it that someone else can have success at something just because you haven't and that is O.K.


I didn't ask why you don't shoot a deer in the neck. all I stated was with a nosler projectile and neck shot they are drt. Which has been my case.

super_hunt54

??? Impossible??? Have you never seen the effects of a rock entering water? Just what do you think causes ripples in the water? Displacement will only cause a change in the levels. Displacement with FORCE at SPEED creates an ENERGY WAVE. Otherwise known as a SHOCK WAVE. A bullet entering an animal (high levels of liquid) creates just such a wave. Note in my earlier explanation I said "temporary wound channel". This channel is caused by the sudden entry and resistance of mass at speed. Thus called ENERGY TRANSFER.

Pretty easily seen here in slow motion. Note the HUGE displacement upon entry. This is your "impossibility" happening right before your eyes. blob:https://www.youtube.com/d9e0ac4...3-59eb149f1c17

Now, the question is, just what damage does this temporary wound channel do. In actuality, not to much. Unless an organ such as the liver is within the path of the wave. The liver is much less elastic than most of the other organs in the body and it has been shown in several studies to be greatly effected by those waves. What DOES happen is the initial physical shock from both the actual mass of the bullet as well as the energy transferred into the animal from that mass entering at speed.

You may want to read more than the one artical you pulled your info from there zrex. You know,,,this one,, http://www.scopedin.com/articles/edi...ostatic-shock/ Where many seem to make their mistakes is thinking that H-Shock means hitting an animal in a poor region and thinking it will go down from the massive energy wave through the arteries and such. Total horse crap there. But you hit an animal in the vitals, there is no doubt whatsoever that a greater energy wave, creating a greater sized temporary wound cavity, will do more damge and aid in putting the animal down faster.

jeepkid

Lately I'm liking the Texas Heart Shot. Pretty small target area but very little meat damage when the bullet goes into the right orifice, if a "pass-through" bullet is used it'll go up thru the animal and usually pop right out of the mouth breaking the neck at the same time.

zrexpilot

a shock wave is never encountered, for this to occur the bullet would have to be traveling faster than the sound speed of the material its passing through, the sound speed of tissue is on average about 5000fps, what your talking about is a flow wave or acoustic wave, shock wave is never encountered, it maybe a hydrodynamic impulse which causes cavitation, thats why i say its hydrauilic shock and its dynamic not static, hydro static shock is bull crap.
kinetic energy never killed a thing. a hand thrown baseball and an arrow have about the same kinetic energy, guess which one is lethal. i will say it again, the sole determination of lethality is the wound channel and tissue destroyed, not anything else.

BarnesX.308

What is referred to as hydrostatic shock is basically the transference of energy, outward from the bullet, through the cells. When you skin a deer, you will see the effects. You may have a 1.2 inch wound channel. but you have a couple inches of bloodshot meat all around this wound channel. Basically, that outward force has destroyed the surrounding cells. This doesn't knock and animal down, unless the CNS is effected. But all trauma is good when you are trying to kill an animal quickly.

A surgeon will tell you, if they get a GSW victim in, the first thing they want to know is whether it was a HP rifle or a slower velocity handgun. The difference in viable tissue will be huge.