(*&^%$ Wolves
11-04-2016, 06:50 AM
#21
Fork Horn
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Wisconsn
Posts: 406
The population estimate of bears in the U.P. is 19,000. Since you are increasing the DNR estimate on wolves by 40%, I won't go that far, but lets say the real number is 25,000. It is estimated that black bears in the U.P. eat 2 or more fawn per year.
Let's add a very small number of 'yotes, say 5,000 that will eat 5 deer or more per 'yote per year.
How's the math on that?
Yet no matter what the actual numbers show, the wolves are always the one blamed for low deer populations. It's a perfect definition of ignorance and it goes on and on and on and on in hunting circles.
Time for people to change their opinion to one of fact rather than hearsay.
I'm not saying that there can't be some type of wolf control at certain population levels/densities, but the facts remain that if bear and coyotes would be controlled at a much higher level, then those complaining hunters would see an increase in deer population.
Let's add a very small number of 'yotes, say 5,000 that will eat 5 deer or more per 'yote per year.
How's the math on that?
Yet no matter what the actual numbers show, the wolves are always the one blamed for low deer populations. It's a perfect definition of ignorance and it goes on and on and on and on in hunting circles.
Time for people to change their opinion to one of fact rather than hearsay.
I'm not saying that there can't be some type of wolf control at certain population levels/densities, but the facts remain that if bear and coyotes would be controlled at a much higher level, then those complaining hunters would see an increase in deer population.
Last edited by handles II; 11-04-2016 at 07:25 AM.
11-04-2016, 11:57 AM
#22
Spike
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 7
The population estimate of bears in the U.P. is 19,000. Since you are increasing the DNR estimate on wolves by 40%, I won't go that far, but lets say the real number is 25,000. It is estimated that black bears in the U.P. eat 2 or more fawn per year.
Let's add a very small number of 'yotes, say 5,000 that will eat 5 deer or more per 'yote per year.
How's the math on that?
Yet no matter what the actual numbers show, the wolves are always the one blamed for low deer populations. It's a perfect definition of ignorance and it goes on and on and on and on in hunting circles.
Time for people to change their opinion to one of fact rather than hearsay.
I'm not saying that there can't be some type of wolf control at certain population levels/densities, but the facts remain that if bear and coyotes would be controlled at a much higher level, then those complaining hunters would see an increase in deer population.
Let's add a very small number of 'yotes, say 5,000 that will eat 5 deer or more per 'yote per year.
How's the math on that?
Yet no matter what the actual numbers show, the wolves are always the one blamed for low deer populations. It's a perfect definition of ignorance and it goes on and on and on and on in hunting circles.
Time for people to change their opinion to one of fact rather than hearsay.
I'm not saying that there can't be some type of wolf control at certain population levels/densities, but the facts remain that if bear and coyotes would be controlled at a much higher level, then those complaining hunters would see an increase in deer population.
11-05-2016, 02:32 AM
#23
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: MICHIGAN
Posts: 2,568
Fact remains that the deer population in Michigan's UPPER has had several boom years and bust years for 60 or 70 years. Now there are areas of the UP where wolves were released and people have not seen a deer nor deer tracks in about 5 years.
I know people who live there that now travel to the lower to deer hunt these days.
Al
I know people who live there that now travel to the lower to deer hunt these days.
Al
11-05-2016, 10:29 PM
#24
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Germany/Calif.
Posts: 2,664
Kind of a broad observation, seen it here. Friends of Wolves think they are doing a good thing promoting the Wolf. It gets political quick, those with a vision want to promote/impose their vision.
Then when things get seriously out of balance the powers that be try to reestablish the balance. It often gets ugly.
The green party here had a vision of some ideal, where mankind and animals live in harmony. One of their main tactics was to regulate hunting almost into obscurity.
The Fox population got so thick, Hare, Pheasant and Ducks all but disappeared. Extensive Fox hunting and twenty years later, some species are making a comeback. Out of some twenty species of Duck, we can now hunt one species. They eventually had to promote and extensively hunt the Fox, many were infected with a parasite that was human transmittable and has no known cure.
They outlawed hunting in one county here, a traditionally very liberal county and now have Wild Boar knocking old ladies off of their bicycles and mugging them for their groceries. Last I heard the politicians were talking about mobilizing the military to thin out the Hogs.
The conflict IMO is with those arrogant enough to think they can legislate a balance, agenda driven game management.
Those who think centuries of policy was devised by idiots. While imperfect it has gotten us this far. The people that think the popular agenda of the day, due to their sophisticated neo intelligence, is going to succeed in producing their visionary results, are delusional. Eco systems are way to complex to predict.
Back in the day there was a three mile wide no hunting strip on the West-East German border. Deer got so thick they were eating the bark off of the trees and killing whole swaths of forest. The ones that survived were diseased, many with Mange. It was a really sorry state of affairs. Political driven game management in action. I was part of the group (90 hunters) who was tasked with thinning them out. It was ugly.
Then when things get seriously out of balance the powers that be try to reestablish the balance. It often gets ugly.
The green party here had a vision of some ideal, where mankind and animals live in harmony. One of their main tactics was to regulate hunting almost into obscurity.
The Fox population got so thick, Hare, Pheasant and Ducks all but disappeared. Extensive Fox hunting and twenty years later, some species are making a comeback. Out of some twenty species of Duck, we can now hunt one species. They eventually had to promote and extensively hunt the Fox, many were infected with a parasite that was human transmittable and has no known cure.
They outlawed hunting in one county here, a traditionally very liberal county and now have Wild Boar knocking old ladies off of their bicycles and mugging them for their groceries. Last I heard the politicians were talking about mobilizing the military to thin out the Hogs.
The conflict IMO is with those arrogant enough to think they can legislate a balance, agenda driven game management.
Those who think centuries of policy was devised by idiots. While imperfect it has gotten us this far. The people that think the popular agenda of the day, due to their sophisticated neo intelligence, is going to succeed in producing their visionary results, are delusional. Eco systems are way to complex to predict.
Back in the day there was a three mile wide no hunting strip on the West-East German border. Deer got so thick they were eating the bark off of the trees and killing whole swaths of forest. The ones that survived were diseased, many with Mange. It was a really sorry state of affairs. Political driven game management in action. I was part of the group (90 hunters) who was tasked with thinning them out. It was ugly.
11-08-2016, 06:56 AM
#25
Fork Horn
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Wisconsn
Posts: 406
Yes bears and coyotes kill deer to but you can already kill bears and deer so people are trying you get rid of them and if you knock out the population of bears and coyotes then wolfs are going to come stampeding in. And then any legal hunter cant do anything about that, thats why wolfs are blamed for it. Think of it this way, if one of your main sources of meat is venison and a pack of wolfs come in and wipe them out would you be happy, would you blame wolfs i know i would
As for hunting bears, the population in the U.P. is pretty stable, not enough tags are offered to actually lower the population. And certainly the coyote population is stable as well. So in an average year thousands and thousands more deer are killed by bear and coyotes, but the hunter that wants to eat venison but can't fill his tag should blame wolves?? That's as dumb as 10 dumb things combined.
That's like blaming my boss because your boss fired you.
Last edited by handles II; 11-08-2016 at 10:34 AM.
