Meat vs. Antlers....
10-12-2015, 01:13 PM
#81
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: south eastern PA
Posts: 15,436
Notorious, thoughtless is just as stupid as selfish. Your way of hunting is for you, to trying to impose it on others just so you can fulfill your goal is selfish and thoughtless and does not contribute to anything to the continuation of hunting. You are no better than the guy who shoots a six point and he paid the same for his license as you did. Most people are involved in sport hunting, some are involved in trophy hunting, there is room for both, so long as people like you stop trying to force their will on others. If you want to hunt for exceptional racked deer, have a ball good on you, I will not take exception to that. However, what I take exception to is the superior attitude exhibited in your posts toward those who do not hunt to your standards. To that end, mind your own freaking business about what others shoot so long as they are legal.
Last edited by Oldtimr; 10-12-2015 at 01:20 PM.
10-12-2015, 02:31 PM
#82
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Illinois
Posts: 3,695
Just because you can do something doesn't mean that you should do it. Apparently I struck a nerve with the word selfish, though perhaps "thoughtless" would have been more descriptive. Most simply give no thought to what that 1 1/2 year old buck would have been, or all the offspring he would have produced in the ruts he will never see.
Oldtimr: Yes, a buck carries the same genes his entire life, but how many ruts has the 1 1/2 year old been through, versus if he had lived to 5 1/2?
Flags: You may very well have more hunting experience than me, it doesn't mean I'm stupid or that I am wrong. After some research, I find that this is not the first vitriolic rant you have made against anyone who doesn't hunt only for meat.
I don't necessarily believe that a one buck limit is the answer, though I have personally witnessed the dramatic improvement in deer quality in Middle Tennessee in the last decade or so since TWRA started cutting back the buck limit. I can remember in the 90's and early 2000's, when the limit was something like 7 bucks, everyone around killed a truck load of scrub bucks and strutted around like they were some great white hunter. It was awful. I can remember someone killing a six point buck and them thinking it was something special. These were not novice hunters, either.
Kentucky has had good luck with a one buck limit it seems. Dad killed a B&C non-typical (scored 211) in South Central Kentucky in 1987, and then a solid 140 inch 8 point in 89 or 90. Such bucks were practically nonexistent in Middle Tennessee at that time, and are still rare, though I am seeing a considerable uptick in the number of 8 point bucks running around lately. I'm not sure we'll ever see deer in Eastern Tennessee, or Eastern Kentucky for that matter, like we do in the more western portions. The terrain is rugged and there is a lack of agriculture in the east, and the deer just never seemed to take hold there quite like they did in other places.
Oldtimr: Yes, a buck carries the same genes his entire life, but how many ruts has the 1 1/2 year old been through, versus if he had lived to 5 1/2?
Flags: You may very well have more hunting experience than me, it doesn't mean I'm stupid or that I am wrong. After some research, I find that this is not the first vitriolic rant you have made against anyone who doesn't hunt only for meat.
I don't necessarily believe that a one buck limit is the answer, though I have personally witnessed the dramatic improvement in deer quality in Middle Tennessee in the last decade or so since TWRA started cutting back the buck limit. I can remember in the 90's and early 2000's, when the limit was something like 7 bucks, everyone around killed a truck load of scrub bucks and strutted around like they were some great white hunter. It was awful. I can remember someone killing a six point buck and them thinking it was something special. These were not novice hunters, either.
Kentucky has had good luck with a one buck limit it seems. Dad killed a B&C non-typical (scored 211) in South Central Kentucky in 1987, and then a solid 140 inch 8 point in 89 or 90. Such bucks were practically nonexistent in Middle Tennessee at that time, and are still rare, though I am seeing a considerable uptick in the number of 8 point bucks running around lately. I'm not sure we'll ever see deer in Eastern Tennessee, or Eastern Kentucky for that matter, like we do in the more western portions. The terrain is rugged and there is a lack of agriculture in the east, and the deer just never seemed to take hold there quite like they did in other places.
10-12-2015, 04:06 PM
#83
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 9,230
"When you have more hunting experience than I do, maybe I'll listen to you, but not until then. "
Theses are the kinds of statements that make this forum unbearable at times. If you haven't killed 68 different species like ol flags has, your opinion means nothing. I think it would have been much easier to type "agree to disagree" than post that diatribe.
Theses are the kinds of statements that make this forum unbearable at times. If you haven't killed 68 different species like ol flags has, your opinion means nothing. I think it would have been much easier to type "agree to disagree" than post that diatribe.
My reference to my hunting experience was in response to someone inferring that I "don't care" about the game and that my hunting for meat is somehow inferior to his hunting for antlers. But I will tell you the same thing I told him, match my experience and maybe I'll hold your views as valuable but not until then. If you don't like that, well, too bad.
10-12-2015, 04:24 PM
#84
Fork Horn
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 107
"When you have more hunting experience than I do, maybe I'll listen to you, but not until then"
"But I will tell you the same thing I told him, match my experience and maybe I'll hold your views as valuable but not until then. If you don't like that, well, too bad."
Yea, I don't think you seem to be the type of person that can hold a civilized dialogue online. Take your ball and go home, pal.
"But I will tell you the same thing I told him, match my experience and maybe I'll hold your views as valuable but not until then. If you don't like that, well, too bad."
Yea, I don't think you seem to be the type of person that can hold a civilized dialogue online. Take your ball and go home, pal.
10-12-2015, 04:55 PM
#85
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,359
I'm just curious moderators is it ok for all of us to call people dense whenever we want? Can we all break the forum rules on a regular basis and you just edit our post for us?
I mean I feel like I'm following a different set of rules here.
Can I also break the forum rules over and over and over if I want or do some get special treatment?
12. "While we encourage lively debate, we will not tolerate personal attacks. Any person attacking another forum member will receive a warning and have their message removed. Any future incident thereafter will result in that member being removed from the forum"
Do we have to follow this rule or no?
I mean I feel like I'm following a different set of rules here.
Can I also break the forum rules over and over and over if I want or do some get special treatment?
12. "While we encourage lively debate, we will not tolerate personal attacks. Any person attacking another forum member will receive a warning and have their message removed. Any future incident thereafter will result in that member being removed from the forum"
Do we have to follow this rule or no?
Last edited by rockport; 10-12-2015 at 06:40 PM.
10-12-2015, 05:09 PM
#86
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Indiana
Posts: 1,186
"We" are the hunters who put more effort into the sport than walking or riding out to the edge of a cornfield and shooting anything that's brown.
10-12-2015, 06:08 PM
#87
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: e tenn
Posts: 127
That is what stands out the most from the age management program I use, We really have a great diversity of age in the herd.
It also helps with blood lines as those young bucks disperse.
I just don't know how you execute that kind of plan on a large scale. Antler restriction may be the best realistic plan.
It also helps with blood lines as those young bucks disperse.
I just don't know how you execute that kind of plan on a large scale. Antler restriction may be the best realistic plan.
Go,... hunt,... be happy....
But just for giggles lets say, hypothetically, that 8 points or better is the magic number. I guess it's acceptable to risk letting folks high grade any 1.5 to 2.5 years old 8 point bucks , that could actually be carrying the genetics to produce what your after, so long as they are restricted from shooting those ("sub par"~sarc~) 6 pointers that could be 4.5+ year old breeders.
Last edited by tndrbstr; 10-12-2015 at 06:46 PM.
10-12-2015, 06:28 PM
#88
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,359
I'm not "worried about the way everyone else wants to hunt" I thought I made that pretty clear
but I am hunting and I am perfectly happy.Thanks for the concern though.
Last edited by rockport; 10-12-2015 at 06:33 PM.
10-12-2015, 06:52 PM
#89
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,359
The answer is YOU don't. If what your doing is working for you and your happy, then why are you worried about the way anyone else wants to hunt?
Go,... hunt,... be happy....
But just for giggles lets say, hypothetically, that 8 points or better is the magic number. I guess it's acceptable to risk letting folks high grade any 1.5 to 2.5 years old 8 point bucks , that could actually be carrying the genetics to produce what your after, so long as they are restricted from shooting those "sub par" 6 pointers that could be 4.5+ year old breeders.
Go,... hunt,... be happy....
But just for giggles lets say, hypothetically, that 8 points or better is the magic number. I guess it's acceptable to risk letting folks high grade any 1.5 to 2.5 years old 8 point bucks , that could actually be carrying the genetics to produce what your after, so long as they are restricted from shooting those "sub par" 6 pointers that could be 4.5+ year old breeders.
First I can't stress enough I don't care what you do.
Now you are right that can and will happen. Ive seen it happen but personally I don't really see any reason to restrict unless the herd needs it in which case it really doesn't matter if it is beneficial to antler genetics. Just health and survival genetics.
You know the bucks that live longer are more likely to carry immunity and such. Probably doesn't hurt to have some proven survivors in the gene pool.
Plus antler restrictions also work decent on a large scale not perfect but a decent plan on a large scale. There are flaws as you have correctly pointed out but like I said it is the best plan on a large scale that I can think of unless you have something else? There is no way to enforce age restrictions so its not going to be perfect.
There are herds in some places that probably need some restrictions. That is not the case in my neck of the woods as enough deer manage to elude hunter but it is a concern in some areas.
While not perfect antler restrictions will increase the average age.
Last edited by rockport; 10-12-2015 at 06:57 PM.
10-12-2015, 07:22 PM
#90
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: e tenn
Posts: 127
Quote:
"We" are the hunters who put more effort into the sport than walking or riding out to the edge of a cornfield and shooting anything that's brown.
If your gonna quote someone d80, it helps to give credit to the person your quoting. At least it helps me.
...and what is a non-mountable antlered deer? Not sure I ever seen one.
"We" are the hunters who put more effort into the sport than walking or riding out to the edge of a cornfield and shooting anything that's brown.
What a high horse statement. Effort such as what? Whatever you say it is I can do any of those things to hunt does and little bucks if I chose to. Everything except holding out and passing up non-mountable antlered deer is the only difference in strategy you can boast about to other hunters.
...and what is a non-mountable antlered deer? Not sure I ever seen one.
Last edited by tndrbstr; 10-12-2015 at 07:25 PM.