I think I need a stand here.
 

went and bought a pair of Bushnell Trophy Cam HDs this morning and swapped one out with my old Moultrie. I was very pleased with the contents of the memory card.

Possible double main beam on the right side?






This guy is also looking real good.





I had at least 8 different bucks and 4 gigs of pics and it was only out for 2 days

Nice buck! Hope he sticks around for your hunting season. What state are you in?

He's well along in his development for just one week into June and will be a shooter for sure this Fall!

Its always a matter of preference/opinion but I don't think those deer are shooters(mature) quite yet.

I hope to see more pictures as they progress though.

It's definitely a matter pf preference and most people that haven't killed bucks like you have aren't out there like you are to kill a close to B&C buck. A good share could care whether it's what some would call "mature" or not when that buck is already out past his ears the first week of June!

That's some antler growth alright.

I'm not twisting anybodies arm. If you want big mature bucks I don't think those are quite there yet and shooting them will only get you further from your ultimate goal. If you don't care have at it.

Then why even make your argumentative post since we agreed with you on how people vary as to what they are looking for? He didn't say what he wanted or that his goal is similar to yours! Furthermore, your last condescending sentence is exactly what you rag on other people for if they make a post like that. Right now there is exactly this type of discussion on a turkey thread about a loss of members and several of the old timers are ticked because of similar posts telling people the birds they have shot were small and they wouldn't have taken them, which is exactly what you're telling the OP on this buck thread!

LOL who is "WE".....your posts are comedy gold. You really can't make this stuff up.

Unlike you there is nothing even remotely argumentative about my posts

Baloney! You need to go look in a mirror because you're as good or better at posting stuff that you accuse me of and don't like. You told the guy you didn't think the buck was mature and comments were made that people differ in their opinions as to what they will or won't shoot. Then you just had to come back and make another post that wasn't necessary. You said you wouldn't shoot it because it doesn't meet your standards, but for him to go right ahead. That is argumentative and condescending whether you agree or not and just because you wouldn't shoot it doesn't mean that 9 out of 10 others wouldn't! It's exactly what members on the Turkey Forum are talking about that chased a lot of good members there away when people ragged on others for shooting stuff they wouldn't. You'll disagree just to disagree, but I'm right on this and anyone that can read both threads can see that I am!

Well why don't you paste this thread there and see who they think the problem is?

Why don't you do it yourself and take a hike with it while you're at it, LOL!

And add to the list of people you have chased away from this site? No thanks.

Now if you don't mind I was trying to have a hunting discussion.

That makes about as much sense as if my dead dog had typed it, LOL! Here we go again with you accusing me of doing something that runs people off when you don't agree with a post I make! However, it usually involves someone making a post that appears to have maybe violated a law that you don't think is any big deal and most of the rest of us do and have commented as such! The big problem here is that everyone on this thread was having a nice discussion about that buck until you decided to make your second post reiterating that you wouldn't shoot it, but he could go right ahead and do it if he didn't care about shooting mature deer like you do. That is condescending and argumentative whether you think it is or not! I have never told anyone on any thread that they shot something they shouldn't have as long as it was legal or to not shoot something like you did on this thread just because it might have been something smaller than I would shoot. As long at it's legal it's up to the individual hunter just as it is on this thread if the guy decides to shoot that buck that you don't think is mature. End of discussion! Have a good evening what's left of it and you can come back with more baloney, but I'm done here and people can see just by reading the thread what has happened here!

RP, it takes two to make an argument. You post you don't think the deer are mature yet. Fine, they aren't mature enough for you. TG comments that they are big enough for many people who are not as descrinimating about what they take, many have never seen a deer in their sights as nice as those deer are going to be when they harden up. TG's post didn't require a resonse, it was simply a true statement and you take it as an afront and continue. As far as the accusations of chasing people away, if disagreements chase people away, you are just as responsible for it as anyone else on this site, not that I agree anyone is being chased away, that accusation is just a way to try to shut someone up. Before you throw a stone at someone, make sure you arent seeing your own reflection in the mirror. If you want to argue go for it,no problem, but if you are arguing because of what you consider an afront to you, ego, don't pull the crap that the other guy is chasing people away hoping the moderators will step in and punish the other guy, accept your part as well. And yes we have disagreed as well, thing is, I don't take it personally and want you banned because you don't conceed a point.
You know a lot about guns and ballistics, those are things that are tangible. However when the discussion is about personal preferences an opposite opinion is not necessarily an affront to yours.

Try some objectivity. No way you can actually read this thread with an objective view and think I am the problem.

I made sure in my first post to state it was a matter of preference and opinion. If there was any post that had no point besides to argue it was very clearly TG response to that and yes after that I felt the need to reiterate I wasn't twisting anybodies arm or telling the which way was right or wrong.

Take a stroll through TG post history......its argument after rude comment after argument. He should absolutely be banned IMO. He breaks the rules over and over all the while trying to police every body else.

Oldtimr---Please just drop it and have a good day, as there is no sense in getting into it with him when the post of mine that he refers to that got his panties in a wad in the first place was actually agreeing with him, LOL! If he only wants to shoot Booner bucks, I have no problem with that and he lives in an area where it's very possible. To tell a guy like he did that he wouldn't shoot that buck, but to go ahead and shoot it before it gets to what he would call mature was an affront to the guy IMHO and I told him so! It was my opinion and all this is just over a picture where he disagrees with people about a particular deer being a shooter and has to continue to always get in the last word. He's very typical of the younger generation nowadays that won't accept any responsibility because it's always someone else's fault when stuff happens, sort of like who we have in the White House at the present time! If people got banned just for having different opinions from others on various subjects, there would be about half the members on this site that there are and if I broke site rules all the time like he stated I wouldn't still be posting. This member has been into it with me a number of times, as well as several other older members where he has disagreed with their opinions too. Instead of going on with life, he takes it to a personal level like he has here and it always ends up where everyone is to blame but him!

It's not about objectivity, it is about control. I can picture one busting in a door, shooting the dog and throwing a grenade in the babies room. The other, a bureaucrat, who sits at a desk and is all about control and self promotion. Sometimes they are a tag team, sometimes leader and toady.

I kind of agree with you for a different reason. I'd have to watch them in person to be sure, one looks like it has bone problems (calcium, phosphate? ). I hunt different than you do. I let the best bucks go to propagate, cull the obvious failures or animals that are unlikely to evolve normally or survive. I harvest around eighteen moths for meat. Judging the breeders in the middle years can be a tough one.

Good antler development is a factor, but not always the deciding factor in my mind, though it is an indicator of all around general health. As often as not it is a non issue anyway, because if you don't harvest them somebody else is likely to.

Playing Devils advocate here a smidge so don't bite my damn head off. That buck looks a bit on the young side. Maybe a 3 to 3.5. I don't know where the poster is located so I have no way of knowing the typical body structure as a basis for age judgement. Just going by best guess. And yes location does definitely matter. Northern and Midwestern deer tend to look a little different in body structure than say South Texas. Not only much larger in body weight but also they tend to get the "sway" a little later than the little southern deer.

Anyway, Devils advocate, if the OP wants to get good genetics going on his property, then shooting 3-3.5 year old bucks sure aint the best way to do it. That buck looks promising to say the least. If I were managing that property for a good strong gene pool I would definitely let that bad boy get some more age on him and let him "spread" those genetics around. Actually they both look pretty good. I personally could care less about racks other than trying to manage a herd for health. And good quality racks are a sign of good genes, food, and all around general health. Old saying, "If shoot all the princes, you will never have a king".

Nice bucks again i ask,what state are you in?

That is really a good part of what is not known, as well as how much property the OP has full control over. While many would consider the best buck in that bunch a shooter in most areas, it is understandable why someone in IL and several of the other states that are known for growing big bucks wouldn't. If the OP has a small amount of acreage and that buck isn't on it most of the time other than to come to that feeder at night, the chances of taking it even if he thinks it's a shooter go way down. In order to pick and choose what is going to be taken out of a herd you need to either have a high fence where you have full control or a huge place where the deer aren't likely to go onto an adjacent piece of property where the people are shooting anything with horns or that is brown! A buck has a set piece of territory, regardless of who owns it, that he will stay in most of the year and when the rut gets going all bets are off as to where he may be.

Im in South Carolina and have 450 acres. When i pulled those cards one camera had 6 different bucks and the other one had 11. First time camera in this location and last year hunted the stand and never saw a buck, just does. So I cant tell if hes just hanging out cause I have better food than his usual place or if hes a local.

Are the cams that are getting the footage more centrally located on that 450 acres or are they on the outskirts? 450 acres is a good number for "holding" deer as long as it has the big 3. Food, Water, and Cover. Those 2 may have drifted into your property and set up home. As far as South Carolina deer go, they are both good deer. Still a bit on the young side but they might well end up being very dominant this season and producing some fine offspring. If it were me, and Top don't bite my head off, I would let them walk till at least after rut. Let them breed up a few Doe. Just my opinion on this. If you would like to see your property start producing some fine racks, then you will have to let the young ones mature and breed.

Where in SC
 

Where is your property in SC? I do some hunting around Lodge SC.

LOL! I'm not going to bite your's or anyone else's head off. MY comment that the wide buck was a shooter was merely based on what I think most people on this or other sites would shoot if they got the chance because the majority of guys will probably not see one like that, especially if they only hunt public land, and would shoot him in a heartbeat. I agreed with a statement by RP that everyone has their own standards and that RP wouldn't shoot him because of where he lives with a lot of really big deer potential and then I was the one that got my head bit off! That deer in many areas would be considered mature, but he certainly wouldn't in IL and some of the other big buck states. I have no idea whether that deer will be big enough that the OP will want to shoot him if he sees him this season or how big a buck might get where he lives. The acreage he says he has is nice and may well hold that buck there all year if it has what you mentioned and enough does to keep him happy during the rut. Then again, if the camera is near the perimeter of the property the buck may only be on that property at night just for that feed and won't be seen at all during hunting hours this fall. It sure sounds like the property has a lot of deer right now with some really great potential if things are done properly.

how many does were in the pics approximately? I'll start a thread later based on my reasoning.
RR

Not many but I wasnt expecting to see any. The one labeled "Ditch Cam" was placed in order to monitor a large bachelor group. By large I mean 8 bucks together at the same time. Seeing 10 or 11 different bucks is common but half are 2yrs or younger. The doe groups are in different areas of my farm. They usually arent very far but they tend to feed in different places and at different times. Usually about 8-10 does per group. In fact that large bachelor group moved proly 300 yards away because there were 3 very pregnant does in the place I used to see them. Guessing the does are tending to their fawns and ran the bucks off.

in areas of the east, that have high deer populations, and they are managed for revenue, the buck/doe ratio is so far out of kilter that the more mature bucks are breeding so many does they just wear themselves down too much, here 4.5 year old bucks are about the best you'll see, only a couple ever live to make they're 6th fall, we have somewhere around 40 deer psm, we have the carrying capacity of 18. you guys from il, mo, wi, mi, and such places claim the bucks aren't mature, they are as mature as they will get the way the heard has been managed. your average bucks are trophies of a lifetime in the east. in tx some bucks that live in areas with plenty of food , and supplemented in the fall, a buck/doe ratio of 1-2 they will live 12-13 years, that never happens here, many 4.5 year old bucks are found dead in dec/jan many are found in fields of standing corn to worn down to even get up to feed.
every excess doe in the woods takes food away from another deer, so too many deer leads to a shorter lifespan for the buck population due to food shortages and to much rutting activity.
that's my take on it, my opinion worth what ya paid for it.
RR

Can't argue with a thing you said RR and that's sort of why I said that wide buck in this thread would get shot by most people unless they are in one of those big buck growing areas like RP is in down in Pike and Adams county in IL. Down there that buck would probably be considered a runt, LOL! I do doubt that very few deer will live to 12-13 years though just because their teeth will generally be gone most of the time before they hit double digits. If you have 40 deer psm, they must be awful runty in size, as Fort Custer near Battle Creek had a population like that back in the 60s and the does were about the size of a German Shepherd in that 10,000 acre facility. We finally got hunts started and took 2000 deer out of there in the three years it was open to controlled hunts and the deer the third year had already gained almost 30# more on the average than the first year we weighed them at the check station.

they are getting bigger here, in the 80's we had upwards of 80 psm, bigger bucks weighed 110#, we have been really whacking them from mid 80's to late 90's, unlimited doe tags and such, now we get a 140-160#er pretty regular.
I brought up the bucks living to 13 in tx due to a book I read by Larry Weishun years ago, he was managing deer heards for ranchers, a guy called needing help, asked larry where all his old bucks were going, larry went by and checked the heard every buck appeared to Larry to be no more than 6.5 yo, so he shot a couple and had them aged, they were both 13, the ranch had a buck/doe ratio of 1 doe for every 2 bucks.
RR

RR, 100% correct. To add a little, one of the other problems in SOME of the Eastern/South Eastern states is the "If its brown it's down" mentality. Shooting the young bucks before they mature. And guys, I live here in Illinois but I haven't all my life. Just a little more than a decade out of the many. I'm from the South East so I know very well how the deer are. I was hunting in NC, SC, TN, KY, GA,FL,AL in the 50's and 60's when some VERY nice bucks were still around in the South East. Back when I only took 140"+ class bucks and they weren't that difficult to locate. Nowadays I only take bucks that look like they just "aint up to snuff" or aren't going to be for the gene pool. I much prefer a nice fat slick head for table fare.

From the OP's last post, it sounds to me like he has a VERY healthy Buck to Doe ratio on his property. So as far as management goes I personally would let those 2 bad boys find them some girlfriends this year at least and put a cap in one either late season after rut and before they shed or take a chance and go after them next year. Just my own personal opinion. You guys paid the same for it as you did RR's :biggrin:

super hunt54---That's pretty much the same thing I stated earlier and why I mentioned that buck is a shooter to most guys. A lot of people on the net say they are trophy hunters, intimating that they only will shoot a mature deer. However, when it comes down to squeezing the trigger that mature buck comes down to one that is just decent. I used to hunt the south Texas brush country and passed on lots of bucks like that buck here will probably be when he hardens in a couple months. It was easy to do though because you never knew when a world record type buck would step out of the brush. I never saw one, but I was sure waiting on him, LOL! Looking back now I probably passed on several that would have been 160" class deer, especially one 10 point buck that was really wide that I watched and let grow for two years. The third year when I figured I'd shoot him I never saw him in over a month of hunting where he always was. He must have died of old age, a vehicle accident, or someone on the adjacent ranch may have wacked him. I do have great video footage of him that second year when he was probably 5 or 6 years old and it's really just as cool watching him than it would be if he was dead here on the wall! When you're in a lot of areas like we're talking about, this buck would not make it past this year if anyone gets a good crack at him whether he's mature or not for the area he's in. That's one neat thing about hunting in that as long as we are legal we can individually choose what will make each of us happy.