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Check it out, 9mm is legal in KS!! PROBLEM!!

Old 10-03-2003, 08:45 AM
  #1  
Nontypical Buck
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Default Check it out, 9mm is legal in KS!! PROBLEM!!

Hey yall, a post a while back about using a 9mm pistol got me thinking about how Kansas' reg books are written, so I checked it out, and sure enough, there' s no listing of minimum cartridge length for rifles, only a minimum diameter....so I emailed KDWP and he got back to me in 20min, affirming that sure enough, there is NO minimum cartridge length requirement for rifles...henceforth, using a pistol caliber carbine such as a 9mm MP-5 or Thompson .45acp would be legal for deer in KS!!!!!!

I' m going to try to work with KDWP on gathering info from hunters to help set up a system that would change this rule, but be more fair than a minimum cartridge length, maybe they' ll affirm that 9mm' s stay legal, maybe not, but I' d like to help find a good system to determine legal equipment....any opinions or suggestions would be greatly appreciated, even if it' s a simple opinion on using pistol caliber semiauto carbines on deer (pistol caliber being pistols, not revolvers/handguns)
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Old 10-03-2003, 09:06 AM
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Default RE: Check it out, 9mm is legal in KS!! PROBLEM!!

Does the law require an expanding bullet? That might eliminate a lot of the smaller pistol cartridges.

Scott Meier
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Old 10-03-2003, 09:19 AM
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Default RE: Check it out, 9mm is legal in KS!! PROBLEM!!

What kind of help do you need Nomercy? I am active in this realm of issues. I agree with you totaly.
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Old 10-03-2003, 09:20 AM
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Default RE: Check it out, 9mm is legal in KS!! PROBLEM!!

I agree with Scott ... an expanding bullet should be required. I also believe something that provides 500 Ft-lbs of energy at the muzzle should be a requirement also.
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Old 10-03-2003, 11:13 AM
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Default RE: Check it out, 9mm is legal in KS!! PROBLEM!!

Last year Alberta had a minimum cartridge length of 1.3/4 in. But the Win. Shot Mag .243 was shorter and so they simply dropped the min. lenght. There is a min. caliber of " .23 cal. or greater." And non-expanding bullets may not be used.

I think most hunters will use an adequet round in a responsible manner. Restrictive regulations in matters like these are an attemt to legislate common sence.

A fellow sitting in a tree stand with a 9mm carbine shooting a small deer feeding at 20 yards may be a more ethical situation than a fellow standing on his hind-leggs blasting away with a 30/30 at a big buck on the run at 250 yards.

Robin
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Old 10-03-2003, 12:19 PM
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Nontypical Buck
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Default RE: Check it out, 9mm is legal in KS!! PROBLEM!!

Ok, I' m looking at the regulations now, and there is no expanding bullet regulation stated!!!!!!!!!!!! (abridged annual regulation summary, like what you' d pick up at your local hunting supply store). I do know, however, that there is a law on the big book about not using FMJ/TMJ' s on any game, but it should be stated in the summary that hunters take as gospel, don' t you agree?

I also agree that a minimum of 500ft.lbs. ME should be the requirement, but it will bring in some problems, i.e., a .223 or .22-250 would have well over 1000ft.lbs. ME, and would fit that bill, making a very powerful arguement for their addition as well (which if we' re letting .45acp' s in, we should let .223' s in too, since they' re obviously a better choice anyway, albeit neither is a wise choice), but how would one keep our current .230" AND a minimum energy requirement?

I agree with you Duffy, however, on the norm, carbines aren' t owned or at least not hunted by guys who value accuracy, typically they' re employed as " scary looking semiauto 9' s" and often bought because they are cheap...I want to try to prevent idiots from LEGALLY taking, say a 9mm Hi-point carbine into the woods and taking shots that hunters would consider average range, I' m fully confident that a 9mm carbine could kill a deer at 20yrds, almost any round will, however, if someone hears that a 9mm carbine is a legal arm for deer, and they treat it like any other deer rifle, let' s all hope that they' re stupid enough not to account for bullet drop and miss completely at mean hunting ranges, as a 100yrd shot on a deer with a 9mm isn' t going to kill it humanely!
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Old 10-03-2003, 06:51 PM
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Default RE: Check it out, 9mm is legal in KS!! PROBLEM!!

Missouri is the same way.


Any centerfire cartridge is legal in the use of taking deer.
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Old 10-04-2003, 03:46 PM
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Nontypical Buck
 
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Default RE: Check it out, 9mm is legal in KS!! PROBLEM!!

They should rewrite it so that it would read any centerfire rifle cartridge is legal, or something similar to that.
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Old 10-06-2003, 03:09 PM
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Default RE: Check it out, 9mm is legal in KS!! PROBLEM!!

I sure hope they get it changed. I' ve been disappointed in a lot of things from KDWP lately, and this just adds to it.
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Old 10-06-2003, 07:27 PM
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Default RE: Check it out, 9mm is legal in KS!! PROBLEM!!

I think we need to get the KDWP to accept minimum standards for hunting on all processes and methods.

All centerfire are NOT legal in KS....22 caliber is NOT legal, ie .223, 22-250, 220 swift, and the wildcat carts. Rifles can use the illegal pistol calibers for legal taking of game, again I M not sure, but .22 caliber is illegal

As for Pistol, .30 carbine is illegal, 9 mm, up to .45 acp too. .45 long colt, .45 mag, and .357 mag are all legal. Not sure on .38 specials.

If you go into the 500 ft lb range for kill capacity, I don' t like it, too difficult to regulate and enforce.

Remember Kansas has no minimum bow draw poundage limit either. That came about due I think to the issue of the let-offs getting high, do the math 45# (old law)at full draw on a 75% letoff, WOW.

Yes, we need to do something to address the minimums that are not being good to our deer herd or the sport. I really do not want to see ethical standards, I would like to see clear language that states acceptable standards.

I know BTW, that deer can bee taken with weapons (hunting tools) of lesser energy and performance, but that does not mean that we should accept that.
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