Indiana Hunting Rifle Cartridge Change
01-06-2014, 10:08 PM
#1
Spike
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 3
Indiana Hunting Rifle Cartridge Change
Indiana Hunting Regulations can be frustrating at times when you want to go hunting with a more common rifle caliber. I want to have the law updated so we can use a broader range of calibers.
Hunting white tail deer all 30 caliber rifles should be legalized in Indiana. These modern 30 caliber cartridges are used nationwide year round for hunting, target practice and other activities. People are limited on how they are able to hunt with the way the law is now; we are not able to used our Grandpa’s old 3030 rifle or any other modern rifle because of the current law. 30 caliber riffles are used in a lot of states for hunting deer and I believe Indiana should allow us to have the same option. I feel it’s a shame that many people who move to Indiana and have more common caliber rifles are forbidden to use them for hunting and can only find themselves with the choice of shots guns or the limited selection listed in the DNR book.
It can cost more than most people have to build a gun around the offered legal calibers. One gentleman said, “My dad has hunted with a shotgun his whole life, and the recoil is getting painful in his older age. I would love to let him borrow my rifle that has much less recoil, because I am not able to afford to buy him a new one that happens to fit inside Indiana’s narrow caliber rules”. Indiana ground isn’t flat like a lot of people say, we have hills which would be backstops for the bullets and people in tree stands don’t fire up in the air and their backstop is the ground. Hunters on the ground position themselves near a deer trail so that they can find a deer in a controlled space so when they shoot they have a backstop so the bullet will be limited on travel and won’t hit anyone. As far as the arguments against using modern cartridges, any bullet is lethal. If a hunter is shooting without being certain they have an effective backstop then they are willing to risk of someone's life for a deer. Hunter education should cover these safety issues.
My argument for legalizing modern rifle calibers would be:
*Greater accuracy so you will have a cleaner kill. The animal will suffer less, and you will have less wounded deers running away only to have the hunter not retrieve the injured deer and shoot another. The hunter would have more control of his shot placement limiting damage to the deer’s vital organs.
*More people own the more common calibers, so you may have more people take up an interest in hunting, selling more licenses and rifles in Indiana increasing Indiana's revenue.
*Hunters from out of state can hunt here since the rifle's they already own can be used also increasing Indiana's revenue by selling the higher priced out of state licenses.
*Most modern rifle calibers have lower recoil than a shotgun, allowing older hunters to hunt longer. It may also reduce injuries of people falling out of stands due to the heavier recoil knocking them off balance in a tree stand.
Please sign my petition. If you have any suggestions please feel free to comment in the forum’s thread. Thank you.
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/i...tridge-change/
Hunting white tail deer all 30 caliber rifles should be legalized in Indiana. These modern 30 caliber cartridges are used nationwide year round for hunting, target practice and other activities. People are limited on how they are able to hunt with the way the law is now; we are not able to used our Grandpa’s old 3030 rifle or any other modern rifle because of the current law. 30 caliber riffles are used in a lot of states for hunting deer and I believe Indiana should allow us to have the same option. I feel it’s a shame that many people who move to Indiana and have more common caliber rifles are forbidden to use them for hunting and can only find themselves with the choice of shots guns or the limited selection listed in the DNR book.
It can cost more than most people have to build a gun around the offered legal calibers. One gentleman said, “My dad has hunted with a shotgun his whole life, and the recoil is getting painful in his older age. I would love to let him borrow my rifle that has much less recoil, because I am not able to afford to buy him a new one that happens to fit inside Indiana’s narrow caliber rules”. Indiana ground isn’t flat like a lot of people say, we have hills which would be backstops for the bullets and people in tree stands don’t fire up in the air and their backstop is the ground. Hunters on the ground position themselves near a deer trail so that they can find a deer in a controlled space so when they shoot they have a backstop so the bullet will be limited on travel and won’t hit anyone. As far as the arguments against using modern cartridges, any bullet is lethal. If a hunter is shooting without being certain they have an effective backstop then they are willing to risk of someone's life for a deer. Hunter education should cover these safety issues.
My argument for legalizing modern rifle calibers would be:
*Greater accuracy so you will have a cleaner kill. The animal will suffer less, and you will have less wounded deers running away only to have the hunter not retrieve the injured deer and shoot another. The hunter would have more control of his shot placement limiting damage to the deer’s vital organs.
*More people own the more common calibers, so you may have more people take up an interest in hunting, selling more licenses and rifles in Indiana increasing Indiana's revenue.
*Hunters from out of state can hunt here since the rifle's they already own can be used also increasing Indiana's revenue by selling the higher priced out of state licenses.
*Most modern rifle calibers have lower recoil than a shotgun, allowing older hunters to hunt longer. It may also reduce injuries of people falling out of stands due to the heavier recoil knocking them off balance in a tree stand.
Please sign my petition. If you have any suggestions please feel free to comment in the forum’s thread. Thank you.
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/i...tridge-change/
01-06-2014, 11:48 PM
#2
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location:
Posts: 2,186
I have no dog in the hunt .... no pun intended, but here are comments from an outsider playing Devil's Advocate.
i would first want to know the history of why there is a restriction on the use of a high velocity, center fire rifle for hunting. I suspect it is an abundance of caution against using a set-up , such as a 30.06 Spr., that is capable of delivering a round lethal to a person out to 1000 yards or more. As far as mitigating the recloil of a heavy "shot gun" load such as the highest velocity 12 guage slug load available ... which is indeed punishing ... one can always port the barrel and install a top quality recoil pad, or move down to a 20 ga. Steps such as these would drop the recoil by a large percentage. As far as accuracy, I have helped sight in several "slug guns". Every one of these was capable of groups in the range of 1.5 - 2.5 MOA. That is rifle like for sure at 100 yards. Clean kills? A 12 ga. or 20 ga. , expanding sabot type bullet is a devastating round and at 100-150 yards. It will drop a deer as cleanly as any 30 caliber high velocity center fire that I know of.. It would be interesting to know for sure if being restricted to using a slug gun to hunt deer is keeping folks up that way from taking up hunting white tail deer. I would suspect not so much. Would not hinder me! Falling out of a tree stand due to excessive recoil ... I call that a stretch. I have never heard of that as being the cause down this way. Usually it is due to the hunter falling asleep, the stand not being set correctly, or slipping on a slick wet surface of the stand platform. Besides the correct use of a quality safety harness will mitigate the possibility of a severe injury. Having said all of that I would suspect that it would take a ton of signatures to even get the ball moving in the direction that you want it to go. But hey, last time I looked this was still a fairly free country and going the route that you are is certainly a worthy effort. Go for it !
i would first want to know the history of why there is a restriction on the use of a high velocity, center fire rifle for hunting. I suspect it is an abundance of caution against using a set-up , such as a 30.06 Spr., that is capable of delivering a round lethal to a person out to 1000 yards or more. As far as mitigating the recloil of a heavy "shot gun" load such as the highest velocity 12 guage slug load available ... which is indeed punishing ... one can always port the barrel and install a top quality recoil pad, or move down to a 20 ga. Steps such as these would drop the recoil by a large percentage. As far as accuracy, I have helped sight in several "slug guns". Every one of these was capable of groups in the range of 1.5 - 2.5 MOA. That is rifle like for sure at 100 yards. Clean kills? A 12 ga. or 20 ga. , expanding sabot type bullet is a devastating round and at 100-150 yards. It will drop a deer as cleanly as any 30 caliber high velocity center fire that I know of.. It would be interesting to know for sure if being restricted to using a slug gun to hunt deer is keeping folks up that way from taking up hunting white tail deer. I would suspect not so much. Would not hinder me! Falling out of a tree stand due to excessive recoil ... I call that a stretch. I have never heard of that as being the cause down this way. Usually it is due to the hunter falling asleep, the stand not being set correctly, or slipping on a slick wet surface of the stand platform. Besides the correct use of a quality safety harness will mitigate the possibility of a severe injury. Having said all of that I would suspect that it would take a ton of signatures to even get the ball moving in the direction that you want it to go. But hey, last time I looked this was still a fairly free country and going the route that you are is certainly a worthy effort. Go for it !
01-07-2014, 05:02 AM
#4
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Indiana
Posts: 1,186
I live in Indiana and here is why the rules are the way they are.
A. Bartholomew County
1. Hunting Spot 1- My place. At this time of year I can see from the roof of my home from my tree stand. I can also see a road and 4 other homes and one farm. Unseen to me is another home through some woods. Everything is spread out like 500 to 1500 yards from my tree stand. Average shot at deer: 30 yards.
2. Hunting Spot 2 - My brothers place. At this time of year from my treestand I can see the roof of my brothers house, his in-laws. 2 houses, 2 pig farm, 1 dairy farm, and 2 roads. Unseen to me are 10 homes behind some woods. This is all spread out within a square mile. Average shot at deer: 50 yards.
3. Hunting Spot 3 - My uncles place. This property is on the north side of a 200 foot tall hill and is 100% percent hardwoods. Unseen from the property is 5 homes and 1 church. All within 500-1000 yards from the property. Two of these house might be within 200 yards of the property line. Average shot on deer: 50 yards.
B. Brown County
1. Hunting Place 1 - A Friends Place. This spot is a series of tall ridges and hills covered by hardwoods and with crop fields on the bottoms. Unseen would be 3 homes on the bottoms within 500 yards of my favorite spot. I have no idea how many other homes are within 1000 yards of this property. The terrain is rough and due to permissions cannot scout the entire area. Average shot at deer: 75 yards.
2. Hunting Spot 2 -Hoosier National Forest. This is not the Lake Monroe section of the forest but the part miles upstream from the inlet Salt Creek. Small hills covered by woodlands. More remote than any other place in the area. Houses do border the property and have walked into someone's backyard due to bad property boundaries and lack of modern GPS devices in the 90's. Average shot at deer: 60 yards.
C. Hoosier National Forest Deam Wilderness Area. This place is 100,000+ acres and borders Lake Monroe. Covered with hard woods and steep ridges. No homes but roads, campsites, and hikerss scattered about. Average shot at deer: 75 yards.
This should cover every types of terrain in Indiana from flat farmland to the largest body of forest in the state. If you seen what my average shot distance is you will understand why I use a .357 1894c Marlin levergun or a 77/357 bolt gun. The farthest shot I ever taken on a deer was 150 yards with a 20 rifled gauge followed by a 130 yard shot this year with the 77/357. However +100 yard shots are uncommon for me. I would protest for 30/30 Winchester and 35 Remington to be allowed simply because they are similar to muzzleloader ranges.
All 30 calibers would be dangerous, unnecessary, and too convenient for the guy who wants to shoot at deer across the cut corn and bean fields when a home is likely within 500-1000 yards away. If a hunter cannot get a deer with the current regulations then try harder or move. Sorry to seem harsh but I do not want to risk any accidents in any situation simply for the convenience aspect. I would need some hard proof and only certain calibers need to be brought up if this was to take root.
A. Bartholomew County
1. Hunting Spot 1- My place. At this time of year I can see from the roof of my home from my tree stand. I can also see a road and 4 other homes and one farm. Unseen to me is another home through some woods. Everything is spread out like 500 to 1500 yards from my tree stand. Average shot at deer: 30 yards.
2. Hunting Spot 2 - My brothers place. At this time of year from my treestand I can see the roof of my brothers house, his in-laws. 2 houses, 2 pig farm, 1 dairy farm, and 2 roads. Unseen to me are 10 homes behind some woods. This is all spread out within a square mile. Average shot at deer: 50 yards.
3. Hunting Spot 3 - My uncles place. This property is on the north side of a 200 foot tall hill and is 100% percent hardwoods. Unseen from the property is 5 homes and 1 church. All within 500-1000 yards from the property. Two of these house might be within 200 yards of the property line. Average shot on deer: 50 yards.
B. Brown County
1. Hunting Place 1 - A Friends Place. This spot is a series of tall ridges and hills covered by hardwoods and with crop fields on the bottoms. Unseen would be 3 homes on the bottoms within 500 yards of my favorite spot. I have no idea how many other homes are within 1000 yards of this property. The terrain is rough and due to permissions cannot scout the entire area. Average shot at deer: 75 yards.
2. Hunting Spot 2 -Hoosier National Forest. This is not the Lake Monroe section of the forest but the part miles upstream from the inlet Salt Creek. Small hills covered by woodlands. More remote than any other place in the area. Houses do border the property and have walked into someone's backyard due to bad property boundaries and lack of modern GPS devices in the 90's. Average shot at deer: 60 yards.
C. Hoosier National Forest Deam Wilderness Area. This place is 100,000+ acres and borders Lake Monroe. Covered with hard woods and steep ridges. No homes but roads, campsites, and hikerss scattered about. Average shot at deer: 75 yards.
This should cover every types of terrain in Indiana from flat farmland to the largest body of forest in the state. If you seen what my average shot distance is you will understand why I use a .357 1894c Marlin levergun or a 77/357 bolt gun. The farthest shot I ever taken on a deer was 150 yards with a 20 rifled gauge followed by a 130 yard shot this year with the 77/357. However +100 yard shots are uncommon for me. I would protest for 30/30 Winchester and 35 Remington to be allowed simply because they are similar to muzzleloader ranges.
All 30 calibers would be dangerous, unnecessary, and too convenient for the guy who wants to shoot at deer across the cut corn and bean fields when a home is likely within 500-1000 yards away. If a hunter cannot get a deer with the current regulations then try harder or move. Sorry to seem harsh but I do not want to risk any accidents in any situation simply for the convenience aspect. I would need some hard proof and only certain calibers need to be brought up if this was to take root.
01-07-2014, 05:27 AM
#5
Fork Horn
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Northern Tennessee
Posts: 128
These comments from a 40 year deer hunter who started in a SG only zone and for the last 35+ years has had the opportunity to hunt many places allowing rifles in the U.S. and Canada. I now hunt Tennessee, Georgia & Kentucky every year, all are rifle. I have had occasion to hunt Indiana once, in 2010, and was lucky enough to take a decent buck of 135". My Indiana buck was taken with a .44mag Carbine at around 65 yards +/-.
My longest shot, ever, on any deer is right at 265 yards, DIT (.35 Whelen) and was taken in Tennessee. Of the nearly 100 other deer I've taken, all save for 1 or 2 would have been shots capable to have been taken and successful with a .44mag carbine, M/L, or SG and that includes my lone mule deer buck. Yes, I really do enjoy my deer hunting with CF rifle and have killed deer with well over 50 different rifles in 23 different chamberings. But the experiences I've had point out that a typical hunter's success is not necessarily dependent on using ultra-long range equipment.
I will add here that Indiana's hunting regs are certainly rather odd, allowing some very powerful "oddballs" such as a .35 WSSM (power nearly equal to a .35 Whelen) in a semi-auto rifle and also the firearm my Indiana Buddy was using, a single shot pistol in .350 Rem mag (YES, that same .350 RM!) as perfectly legal arms.
My longest shot, ever, on any deer is right at 265 yards, DIT (.35 Whelen) and was taken in Tennessee. Of the nearly 100 other deer I've taken, all save for 1 or 2 would have been shots capable to have been taken and successful with a .44mag carbine, M/L, or SG and that includes my lone mule deer buck. Yes, I really do enjoy my deer hunting with CF rifle and have killed deer with well over 50 different rifles in 23 different chamberings. But the experiences I've had point out that a typical hunter's success is not necessarily dependent on using ultra-long range equipment.
I will add here that Indiana's hunting regs are certainly rather odd, allowing some very powerful "oddballs" such as a .35 WSSM (power nearly equal to a .35 Whelen) in a semi-auto rifle and also the firearm my Indiana Buddy was using, a single shot pistol in .350 Rem mag (YES, that same .350 RM!) as perfectly legal arms.
01-07-2014, 01:55 PM
#6
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Allegan, MI
Posts: 8,019
It's all because of the human population density as mentioned above. Many states, including southern MI where I live, have a lot more stringent regulations for what can be used, so be happy with what you have and don't figure on changing things because the human population will certainly not decrease in the near future. Yes, there are several cartridges in there that make you say WTH, but it's because they list a minimum caliber and cartridge dimensions, rather than individual ones because there are so many with poeple also creating wildcats to try and meet the regulations. If they put up every allowed one they'd go crazy with people wanting to have their "baby" looked at and included. Oh, and yes, I realize that any centerfire can be used for anything but deer and it's the same way up here. The reason for that is there are a lot less hunters out in the field than in deer season and I think they figure things should be under a little more controlled condition, whether any of us agree with that or not.
PS: To the OP---FYI putting up your same post to start three different threads is considered spamming and is against site rules!
PS: To the OP---FYI putting up your same post to start three different threads is considered spamming and is against site rules!
Last edited by Topgun 3006; 01-07-2014 at 02:16 PM.
01-09-2014, 03:17 AM
#7
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,926
Every state is different
States manage hunting, so there's no way around it. A lot of hunting is based on the size of the human population, deer population and the topography of the land. West Virginia isn't Indiana.
The human population keeps getting bigger and the restrictions increase. A number of my former tree stand sites are now residential sub-divisions. No way around that.
The human population keeps getting bigger and the restrictions increase. A number of my former tree stand sites are now residential sub-divisions. No way around that.
01-09-2014, 05:19 AM
#8
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 9,230
Handguns are legal for deer in Indiana. If I lived there I'd be getting a Contender or Encore chambered for one of the rifle rounds and then I'd go slay a few whitetails. Some of the modern single shot pistols are accurate up to 300 yards.
01-09-2014, 05:25 AM
#9
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Virginia
Posts: 1,473
Ballistically it doesn't make a lot of sense to shoot rifle calibers in handgun-length barrels.