Update on the 357 magnum for deer.
 

thought i would update the other thread as it is now locked, and i wanted to put an ending to what i have decided to do. i went to my local shop and since i only had enough money for a h&r handi rifle in 357 so it would match my ruger sp101. however my local shop guy pointed me in another direction, i had $275 for the rifle and i was planning to get ammo as i could. well he suggested a h&r tracker II slug gun at $150 and use the rest of the money on slugs. so i took his advice and i'll be getting a tracker II 12 gauge slug gun and ammo. thanks for everyones advice, but the guy at the shop brought up a good question. what if i shoot a deer with a 357 and it runs over on posted land which i have alot of around where i live. he said a 12 gauge slug placed right will put the deer down where i shoot him, thanks again.

The same question pertains to the 12 ga., you bought a larger caliber yes, but accuracy is more important than the caliber used.
The .357 will kill a deer where it stands as quickly as will a 12 ga.

Oh Brother! Here we go again Mr. Super Moderator! Better shut it down before we get started again, LOL!!! Don't worry about me though, as I won't touch that last .357 comment with a ten foot pole!

aren't sabots about $5 per round these days? $3 per round??

While I've never lost a deer shot with a 12ga slug, I've only had a doe bang/flop ever.

Once put 3 rounds in a buck at about 40yds and the deer looked at me and walked away, was dead within 50yds, later checking, 3 shots all in the heart.

I'd still take a .308 over my awesome new 20ga savage 220, but it's far and away the best slug gun I've ever owned.

He gave you wise advice pilgrim....

I believe the OP is just a kid that likes to start trouble. He was on another forum doing the same thing. My answer is still the same: If you have to ask then no, it is not enough for deer at 100 yards.

so will a well placed 357 round.

and even GREAT shots on occasion require a bit of tracking

So will a baseball bat between the eyes and there's no tracking involved, LOL!

It is a interesting sharing.............

000 buckshot will drop a deer it it's tracks with one of the buckshot out of the ten in a 3 inch shell at 50 yards. But at 100 yards a .357 or a buckshot or two probally won't.

The same can be said of a .22 rimfire.......... :)

Yep; if the barrel is stuck in it's eye or ear, LOL!

But if it doesn't drop 'em............ you've got a hell of a tracking job ahead of you because it doesn't expand and likely did not pass through!
Personally, I'd prefer the baseball bat!

A .22 LR round is very capable of killing a deer. It's the round of choice for poachers in Wisconsin. At least it was up until the DNR warden my Father is friends with retired ten or fifteen years ago.

It is the ideal poaching gun in most states. You can hunt certain species of animals year round that are easily killable with a .22 LR round so having one is not all that suspicious if you have the proper license. It is also a quiet round.

Don't discount what a good shooter can do with a less than optimal round. The .22 group of cartridges has taken more lives (animal and human) than any other round in existence.

"A .22 LR round is very capable of killing a deer. It's the round of choice for poachers in Wisconsin."

Please do not confuse poachers with Hunters! The two are as opposite as night and day! A poachers only concern is not getting caught, a Hunter's concern is a clean, humane kill. Its called respect for the sport and the fine game animals that we love!

+1 JMM! Enough of this 22 horse manure!!! Take enough gun out to humanely kill what you aim at or take up knitting!!!

I've killed a couple of dozen deer with a .22, never lost a one...They are quite legal here in NC...

Back in the 60s we didn't have "deer" rifles, we had a 12 gauge and a .22...If a deer came in while we were squirrel hunting we killed the deer by shooting between the eyes or with a shot behind the ear...

We killed hogs for curing the same way...

Would I advocate someone else doing this, nope because I don't know how well they can shoot when the time comes...But it can easily be done...I've killed thousands of squirrels with head shots, why not deer????

My point is that TG3006 made a woefully incorrect statement about the lethality of the .22 LR round. Had it been legal in Wisconsin, more than one deer would have fallen to me while squirrel hunting.

The moral of the story here is, the shooter determines the effectiveness of a caliber more than anything else. Especially at the 100 yard or less range.

All else is conjecture. Most people claiming a round is ineffective are bad shots. At least that has been what I've observed over the years.

"I've killed thousands of squirrels with head shots, why not deer????"
Answer---Because a squirrel's head is so small with little bone to stop a 22 round. You either hit it and kill the animal or miss it completely. You can say neither when talking about the size of a deer's head.

"The moral of the story here is, the shooter determines the effectiveness of a caliber more than anything else." All else is conjecture. Most people claiming a round is ineffective are bad shots. At least that has been what I've observed over the years.

You guys can sure come up with some real crappola! Why do you think the 22lr is not allowed to shoot deer legally during a hunting season in most places? The answer is because it's for pliinking and small game like your squirrels and doesn't have enough energy to shoot a big animal in the heart/lung area to make a clean kill humanely in a timely manner! Sure it will kill a deer if you're close enough and shoot it in the head. Shoot it in the body and it is gone to die another day or days later! Thus my reference and statement about a ballbat! Now come back and try to tell us that shooting a deer in the head is ethical, LOL! You guys talk like you're poachers in your posts and not ethical hunters! I hope the Super Moderator locks this thread up quickly or I might just tell you where you can stick your 22lr for anything much bigger than squirrels, LOL! Lastly, I hope that reference to 22s killing more animals and humans than any other caliber was in reference to centerfire calibers for the human element or you are really out to lunch!

Some of us grew up in the country, with dads who lived through The Depression...

These things are learned through experience, not from sitting behind a keyboard and
preaching......

So when are you going to call me "sonny", LOL! I've also lived in the country my whole life and have hunted since 1953, so I doubt seriously that you're so much more versed in what we're talking about old timer! In fact, you might want to go back to ballistics 101 and figure out why an animal should be shot with enough gun that you don't or shouldn't even need to be talking about shooting it in the head!

Well, this thread sure went to **** in a hurry.

Very typical when a person comes on here just to argue and tell us that a 22 is a deer cartridge! Now he'll probably come back with another gem and tell us that he shoots them at 500 yards right in the eye, LOL!

Nope, what I'm going to tell you is if this country continues down the path it's headed, these things might come in handy...Skills like making rabbit boxes, fish traps, snares, even killing small game with slingshots may help in the future...

I don't know what you do or don't know and frankly don't really care...I've just told you what I have done, if you don't like it, that's your problem...

Just because you have hunted X number of years really doesn't mean anything if you can't learn new ways or skills...I've know people that have 22 years experience in their job and others that have one year of experience 22 times...

If you can't learn from others or have a civil conversation you might want to work on your comprehension skills...

So now just because I don't agree with you and your way of using marginal equipment to ethically and humanely kill an animal I'm not having a civil conversation? You, Sir, are one pompous ******* and you can continue this conversation with yourself!

Be careful now, calling names isn't allowed on here...This is a family forum...

I didn't say a .22 was a deer cartridge, nor did I say I still use it...

I just said it will work and I have done so...Back in my youth I was a squirrel
hunter and did kill some deer with a bullet to the head...

My current deer rifles are a .54 caliber flintlock I made in the 80s and a .243 that
I bought over 30 years ago...

No one has advocated normally hunting deer with a .22, but we have stated that many deer have been taken, humanely and legally, with that round.

One person said the .22 LR round was so weak it would never kill a deer unless it was point blank range. Which is utter BS. TG3006 got called out for that stupid statement.

Then the two folks who said the truth were attacked, and accused of saying things neither one ever said, much less hinted at as being a good idea.

I have been hunting since I was 12. I may only have twenty years of "experience" but the lessons my Old Man taught me have helped take my fair share of game. He taught me to understand that even the weakest of rounds can kill easily, and that following the basic rules of gun safety have to be adhered to always.

I know what the .22 LR caliber can do. It's not a weak round. It's a lightweight and lethal round. Any claims otherwise show an inherent misunderstanding of basic ballistics and a disregard to safety by making such foolish statements.

There are virtually no negligent/accidental discharges with guns. There are only people who fail to understand that ALL calibers are lethal, and ALL four of the basic safety rules need to be followed at ALL times. Anyone making statements to the contrary fail to grasp that basic fact.

"No one has advocated normally hunting deer with a .22, but we have stated that many deer have been taken, humanely and legally, with that round. One person said the .22 LR round was so weak it would never kill a deer unless it was point blank range. Which is utter BS. TG3006 got called out for that stupid statement."

***Sure deer have been shot in the HEAD and humanely taken. Big deal, as that's the only place they would humanely take one and that's my whole point! Anyone advocating shooting one in the head with ANY caliber unless they are in any emergency and starving to death have a pretty poor argument and maybe that's what you two are saying. My point blank statement was being facetious, but it looks like you bright fellows can't figure that out either, LOL! I know what a 22 will do out at the shorter distances it was designed for, including killing a deer if shot in the head. It's funny that there aren't even any advocates for using that caliber for fox or coyotes and it's for a reason. It's a cartridge designed for animals like squirrels and a little bit bigger stuff and should be used as such. Even a coon is hard to kill with one unless hit in the head and I shot more than a few over the dogs when I first started night hunting when I was 6 way back in 1953. I have 22LRs, a 22magnum, a 22 Hornet, a .243 Sako, a 25-06 Ruger, and several makes of 30-06s and they are all used for game that they were designed for. That's all I'm saying and I think, and hope, all can agree on that. As far as the rest of your gun safety comments, I'm well aware of all you've stated. Furthermore, no posts in this thread have said anything that could or should lead anyone to think differently other than someone who just wants to keep this thread alive with comments that were condescending and not needed!

I should have used the word (can) in my sentence, (will) isn't a good word at all and I apologize to all here.

You're forgiven, LOL!

10-4!!!!
I understand as we get more "experienced," we like to up the "challenge" of hunting by taking up different methods of hunting.
That said, many younger or less experienced hunters read what is said here, lets not inadvertently set them up for failure.
As I said, I understand new challenges, marginal killing equipment is just not a "challenge," it's irresponsible! Its also disrespectful to our fine sport and the great animals that we hunt!

Ive watched both these posts and just shook my head.Many of you seem to think you need a cannon to kill a 100lb deer.Truth is almost all the guns mentioned in these posts will kill a deer if your not a complete moron.Know what you and your gun are capable of and stick to those limitations.A lot of you seem to confuse long range shooting and hunting as the same thing.Pretty simple really, if you can hit a target at 300 yrds and you have enough gun to kill cleanly at that range take the shot.If your guns only good to 100 yrds or your a marginal shooter get in closer before you shoot.

Funny thing is most of the people i meet that complain about a certain caliber of gun either A- cant shoot it well, or B- dont know how to track after they shoot.Then the deer is lost or wounded and the gun gets blamed.

To the OP, a 12 gauge is plenty of gun for deer, and with the barrels and slugs available today with a lotta practice and trying different bullets theres no reason they cant take deer well past 100 yrds and leave a very large hole in the process.Get in closer, dont worry about trying to be a sniper and kill stuff a half mile away, its more fun anyway than shooting deer from the next county.

"Truth is almost all the guns mentioned in these posts will kill a deer if your not a complete moron"

I hope your "almost all" is meant to exclude the 22LR!

"Funny thing is most of the people i meet that complain about a certain caliber of gun either A- cant shoot it well, or B- dont know how to track after they shoot.Then the deer is lost or wounded and the gun gets blamed."

I've heard that before and IMHO don't think it really applies in this situation. Normally when I hear that statement it's when guys talk about going to big magnums when a good old 06 will more than od the job. Not so in the case of a 22LR and big game! Of over 100 big game animals I've shot in my life I've never lost one and can only remember a couple that even went 50 yards, so I guess just maybe I'm doing something right! Stay with the proper gun for the game and stay within your capabilities to lessen the chances of losing one is exactly what you mentioned and I couldn't agree with that more!

You hoped wrong.I understand what you are saying, its not an ideal deer rifle and isnt one that should be ethically used if not neccasary..

But that wasnt the question the question was will it kill deer.The plain and simple fact is yes, it has probably killed just as many if not more deer through history as any other gun out there.And there were times through history where it was a neccessity to kill deer with whatever you happened to own {someone mentioned the great depression, it was a good example}.

You arguments based in ethics, not facts.Fact is it will kill, and has has killed thousands of deer and will continue to do so legally where allowed and illegaly where its not.If I were stranded in the middle of nowhere and only had a .22 i certainly wouldnt hesitate to take a close up shot at a deer and the possibility of not recovering it would not cross my mind because i know the round will do the job.

"it has probably killed just as many if not more deer through history as any other gun out there. You arguments based in ethics, not facts."

Helloooo out there!!! What in the world have you been smoking to make silly statements like that about the 22LR, LOL!

"If I were stranded in the middle of nowhere and only had a .22 i certainly wouldnt hesitate to take a close up shot at a deer and the possibility of not recovering it would not cross my mind because i know the round will do the job. "

I think I already covered that in my statement about emergency situations and don't disagree.

You are quite out of touch with reality if you think otherwise, the 22 has been around much longer than many of the popular guns on the market now and it wasnt really all that long ago when hunting was a free for all without a lot of regulations and enforcement.You used to hut with what you owned, there wasnt money for a different gun for every critter you hunted and in many cases it was the .22 because it was able to kill anything from rabbitts to deer size game.Perhaps you need to remember everything wasnt always what it is now and even today theres thousands of deer poached with this rifle every year across the country and its still a legal caliber in some states.

You sure seem to know a lot about poaching with a 22!!!

Youve shown your ignorance through this whole thread and whenever someone makes a valid point you cant disprove you gotta resort to accusations and smart ass comments.Must suck not to be able to defend your position with any actual facts.

You haven't come up with one valid point yet for me to even have to worry about disproving it and you're calling me ignorant, LOL! Case in point is this statement in your 7:24PM post: "even today theres thousands of deer poached with this rifle every year across the country" How in haydes can you consider that a fact unless you personally know of all of them? That's just one of a number of things in your posts that are conjecture, not fact! Incidentally, the quote of mine in your last post wasn't an accusation, but if you think it was a smartass comment you are now getting closer to a fact, LOL! Here's an idea. Why don't you tell us all how or why you know so much about poaching to make all these comments you consider facts! I'm waiting, but not holding my breath.

Is a 22 Mag too much gun for deer?:popcorn: