Have we lost focus?
 

As another archery season vastly approaches i'm as pumped as ever. Some exceptional bucks have been spotted firsthand in the woodlots i call home. As much as i would love to tag one i know it's a longshot and the 1st 5pt to present a shot is much more likely to take a ride in the bed of the chevy. This brings me to a point i see and hear alot of score this buck or he's only a 130'' 3yr old 10pt give him another year. It's like the true meaning of hunting is all but lost anymore it's way to much emphasis on the headgear it's not the size of the rack that should determine a true trophy it's the story behind it. I've got spikes and 4pt's that i consider more of a trophy than the larger bucks on my wall because of the blood sweat and tears it took to get them. I witnessed a 12yr old boy harvest a 3pt he was grins from ear to ear than razzed terrible by nearby hunters thats sad. Many hunters seem to be lost in the size matters game. If its legal and theyre happy support others our hunting future depends on it.

It is all relative to your likes, time available, and even your budget. Some have the time to spend, passing up one deer after another. Some can not afford the time, or perhaps can not afford to risk no harvest at all to make up for the money spent on the license, gear, gas, etc. Personally, I will seek the advice of those that "trophy" hunt, since they generally have a lot of good advice to offer, even though I am probably much more your type of hunter. The only type of hunter I do not care for is the slob hunter that breaks laws, hunts drunk, litters, and trespasses - I look forward to that type going away for good. And slob hunters can seek trophies, or be strictly meat hunters - they come in all varieties.

I've only been a hunter a few years but have been around hunters for some time,my fishing buddies who hunt also and common knowledge about it. As far back as I can remember hunters have always to some degree desired taking a nice Buck during the season if the opportunity presented itself.But getting some meat was a first priority with the vast majority of them,so Does where not rejected but highly desired by them all as well as smaller Bucks. There is no doubt that a great deal of emphasis has shifted toward trophy Buck hunting which many find very challenging and use as a method to let the smaller ones get to some level of maturity,the let them walk to grow mind set. I think what many of us find troubling is the commercial market that has taken this to an extreem level where it's nearly all you see and read in the hunting media. It has helped give birth to a bunch of deception and greed about how it's done,such as buy this, go here, and let us lead you to the big Bucks for many dollars. Those who can afford it do it and some who can't afford it do it as well being caught up in the Big Buck craze. Every generation sees change in how the past generation did things and thought about them. Is it wrong? Is it without challenge? Is it a proof people can't hunt or have no skill? I think it's unwise to conclude that yes is the answer to all these and other questions. We all define what hunting is and means to us by how we go about it and I'm sure there are many differences amoung us all in these matters. I personnally at this time will pay only one group for the priveledge of hunting Deer or Turkey,and that is Indiana DNR for my license to do so. I'm glad I can buy good quality and useful equipment to persue my game of choice at Dick's or Bass Pro or BowHunting.Com if I please. Are we loosing focus,some are, have we been distracted and lost much of our hunting heritage as Hunters,I'm sure we have to some degree. But the basics will always stay alive as we teach the next generation what is important to us as Hunters. As has been said thousands of times by many," It's about more than the Kill or the size of the Antlers it's the total package which makes it a great way of life with most of us. Hunters like sports fans decide who they will Idolize and lift up as our figure heads by our support of them or lack thereof. Hopefully after it is all said and done the best will be left standing for everyones benefit.

I had a relative
 

who shot this nice buck, it was nice then, in the 120 scoring range, when young. We congratulated him warmly.
Never heard of him quite duplicating it in later years. Then I ran into him while visiting the hometown about ten years ago. He said he giving up hunting; didn't interest him like it did.

Hunting a trophy and only a trophy can end hunting careers early.

Amen ds223, the "hunting/fishing industry" as it has become has RUINED essentially ALL big game and alot of sport fishing! Thats why imho most out
doors shows should be REMOVED from the air. They are all the same old CRAP anymore, some dweeb that wears camo everything except the contacts in his eyes. He struts around and "comes to town" like we are all supposed to fall at his feet like the second coming! :rolleye0011:

And the arrogant attitude combined with a distaste of any "trophy" not of outlandish proportions as well as the "wannabe hunters" who take such inferior animals. :nonono2:

Too the novice or kids who know no better, based on most of todays shows
and "pros" theyd think hunting was about WHO you are and WHAT you
killed instead of the relaxing and fun times together enjoying Gods creation and bounty! They might even be ashamed to carry their grandads old WINCHESTER 30/30 into the woods because it isnt the biggest, baddest
monster crusher on the market today and obviously todays superior animals
are no longer affected by the projectiles thrown by such antiquated peices of crap! :sad:

Damned if I'll let my boys grow up with such silly notions of modernity,
:wink:
HL

Ps
And this talk of "hunting careers"... Weve GOTA STOP that! Unless you are doing this for a living its NOT a career, its your past time, hobby, what you enjoy doing. That conotation just puts more emphasis on the importance of quantity and trophies for comparison vs a lifetime of satisfaction and memories of days afield with friends and family or the days you just watched solo without firing a shot!!! THATS what the outdoors is about!

I would say, yes, we have lost focus. But, it is not so different from anything else in life. (How have we come to a place where Mom and Dad both work 9-5 [or longer], spend little time together in the evening, put the kids to bed and pop on the tube for a couple hours? Is that living??).

We have a system (or industry, but it’s all a part of the system) dictating a “norm” to us. We have become dependent on big agriculture and just being able to waltz into the grocery store to buy whatever food we want or can afford (prices are steadily climbing). That affects our attitude towards hunting, whether you realize it or not. There are some very useful and beneficial products out there, and hunting has come a long way in that regard. However, there are many, many more products out there that are designed for one thing, and one thing only: making you believe that it will help you kill a bigger buck. There is less focus on woodsmanship and raw skill, and a whole lot more focus on trickery and making hunting, well, less like hunting. “People can do what they like as long as it’s within the law, blah blah blah…,” but the fact remains is that the average hunter today is very influenced by the industry’s heavy marketing, and is barely a shadow of what yesterday’s hunter once was.

I am preaching to myself, here, BTW. I am not above the influence, but I try to remain mindful of it.

I would have to agree with many of the previous posts. Yes, hunting has been changed due to the impact the media has transformed it in to. Lets face it todays society is spoiled rotten with all the information on the web,t.v and such that it takes away from the day when you went out with grampa and dad and learned what it was all about to be in the outdoors. Today you can turn on the t.v and in a half hour this wonderful buck walks out and gets whacked. The younger generation now expects this when they head into the field, little do they know there can be and will be countless hours in search of game at times and what you may find probably will not be a monster buck. My first deer was a three pointer and to me this will probably be the best trophy regardless of what I may harvest in the future. We as hunters need to pass down the traditions and values of what it is to be a true outdoorsman to the younger generations in order for this wonderful sport called hunting to continue.

It's not that we lost focus, but too many are trying to place their morals or lack thereof on others. If the deer is taken legally and the hunter is happy, we should be happy for that hunter. There are others who are envious. I have heard "What did you shoot him for? I was going to let him go another year!" The deer don't belong to any one hunter (fair chase deer that is). It's not like you can put "dibs" on a buck.

Bottom line, mind your own business and let other hunters be happy with their bounty!

Hit the nail on the head! This is the problem with general population overall, no one ever takes a moment to consider others goals... They only critique people that aren't fitting into theirs. This has always been a vast problem with Humanity.

Each person should be free to hunt any way they desire as long as they are within the laws in their area. Each person should be free to have his/her idea of what a trophy deer is. For me, I am lucky enough to have a job that allows for several days off in a row. I bow hunt and will probably hit the woods in excess of 30 to 45 days depending on my luck. For me I choose to hunt only does and mature bucks. I do this because I have the time to do it, the passion to do it and it allows me to extend my season searching for that "mature buck." On the flip side my friend who owns the land that borders mine is more interested in introducing youth and new hunters to the sport. I think what he's doing is great and I can tell it excites him just as much as hunting mature bucks excites me. We share our land and hunt on each other. We hunt the same deer with different hunting ideas and goals, but at the end of the day we are great friends and great hunting companions. That to me is the beauty of hunting, it means something different to each person yet it has the ability to bring people together and form lasting friendships. We just have to be thoughtful of each other and our freedom to hunt how we see fit.

I can promise you, anyone who would criticize a 12 year old for the size of buck he shot would not share a deer camp with me.

I gave up hunting 20years ago when I lost my friend and hunting partner.I started hunting again 3years ago and the only land I was able to find is a very small woods surrounded by farm fields. Although there is some deer sign I have not seen a single deer. I hunt for meat not antlers, though I would love to get a nice buck. So I will shoot does and young bucks if I get a clean humane shot. I do think there are too many hunters that would look down on hunters like me.

When I started hunting, nobody knew what antler "score" was. We had no idea how old bucks were and we didn't care. We never heard the term "cull" or "management" buck. We went up to camp to have fun. And any buck shot was awesome. Nobody passed up bucks because they didn't meet their standards. A legal buck was something to be proud of.

Double post.

I just started hunting 3 years ago. I do it mostly because I enjoy being in the woods and I like venison. I would like to get a nice 8 pointer for the wall, and then would welcome a bigger buck to stand beside it, but I will also tag a doe or two, when I feel like drawing blood.

Last year when I took a smallish doe on opening day of bow season, I did get a few snide comments...but she tasted real good.

I do think that the 'what do you think this buck would score' posts are really silly.

I don't care what anybody shoots or considers a trophy..
In British Columbia, Min Antler Requirement is a law throughout at least some of our season for most if not all the Big Game Species..
Min 4 point Mule Deer on one side ( not including brow tine)
min 6 point elk one side... Full Curl Rams, 2 point and Smaller Moose..
I got my own standards, as long as it's legal and up to my standards I'll shoot...
But there are Laws that do determine what a hunter can and can't shoot by the size of antlers, not just what a hunter decides to shoot..
I am what I consider a trophy hunter, haven't shot a buck since 2004,
But I too collect memories throughout each season..
What I do or do not decide to shoot should not be frowned upon by anyone..
I focus on big ...
That's not losing focus, that channeling in on something that's out there real and extremely tough to find and kill..
That what I call hunting...

Hunting is just that... its hunting. A person is going out and Hunting for something they want. If that is meat only then great, if you have the means to "trophy hunt" thats great too. It's a decision for each person to make. I deffinately went through a time when i just shot whatever gave me the oportunity when i was younger, but now i typically let the younger bucks walk just because i know that i will get an opportunity for meat later with a doe. (buck to doe ration in alabama is rediculously off compared to other states) I have killed enough young bucks but would never look down on someone for doin it.
In the end our main goal as hunters should be: to pass the sport on just like my father did to me and i intend to do to my children, be stewards of the land, and enjoy the time God has given us to do so.

I view hunting as a one to one encounter of the hunter and the prey.
I do not give a hoot to what others say about what I shoot as long as I am within the legal limits of the hunting laws.
I encourage others to set their own goals as what they should hunt.
I encourage the inexperienced to try to get one on the first opportunity and the more experienced to aim for what might be beneficial to the total health of the prey(example shooting the smaller one of the 2 animals of the same age would preserve genetics of the bigger one).
I view trophy hunting as beneficial if it benefits the population of the herd like taking old bucks and giving the younger healthy bucks the chance to bred.
But to take an animal without consideration to the total herd is senseless.
If not aware of the population dynamics of your herd you might be just taking down the best breeder of your local herd, kind of killing your best breeding bull in a beef farm.
In our area where we have too many does compared to bucks the sensible thing is to take the lesser does out and leave the biggest and healthiest ones to bred.
Any game animal can be a personal trophy to someone. It's a personal choice.
But knowing the makeup of your local deer population and taking out a particular animal for the purpose improving total herd health is to me proper trophy hunting.
To someone that is only concerned with scores, I would say this, some pictures of deer have impressed me more than those dead mummified heads on the wall.
My 2 cents....

Thats the way it should be.

I didn't hear about antler scores until a few years ago when the TV hunting show industry took off. I enjoy watching those shows, but I do think the emphasis is often too heavy on antler inches.

I have not lost focus. I enjoy the whole experience. Scouting, reading magazines, chatting in forums like this, practicing at the range and more....Heck, I even enjoy washing all my hunting gear in the laundry. Imagine that.

I am proud to shoot any deer and will teach my children as best I can to enjoy the whole experience. The size of the antlers or body is not as important, to me anyways, as is the whole memory of the hunt - pre and post hunt. The joy and pleasure of being a deer hunter lies in the details for me.

I think everyone has made very good points and I agree with most of them. But I have hunted now for 40yrs and to me what changed it the most was advanced technology. Back when I started nobody bowhunted NOBODY. Then came the compound bow. This is the biggest change in hunting by far. Deer hunters used to hunt small game till the gun season then take the week off and shoot the first buck they saw and wait till the last day or so and shoot a doe. Everyone was happy. And there were alot of big bucks shot and like what was mentioned nobody knew how to score a deer. It was how many pts and what was the spread and weight. Now I don't want to sound like I am against bow hunting cause I'm not. But here comes the mid 70's and the compound and everyting changed. My gramma had a farm and we hunted it and so did the neighboors and we hunted theirs. We could go about anywhere after opening day. But as the bows got better everone wanted a stand with baitpile and then came the no tresspass signs and then the attitude well if I can't hunt your I'll post mine. Then everyone wanted and bought a 40-80 acre peice so they had a stand and bait to hunt. Then came all the videos and mag about throphy hunting. Some want to use QDMA and others don't. Its a big mess. But I do feel the seasons are way to long. Back when I started the big bucks had a chance to breed. No they have to get by a youth hunt that kills alot of mature buck in bachelor goups still very easy to pattern and the early bow and the rut during bow. Ask a breeder you need to breed the best to the best. But in a nutshell we all need to get toghether and get along. I go out west when I can because I like the style of hunting and lack of hunters. I throphy hunt where I think they are. I still hunt MI for the hunting camp and stories with relatives and friends but I know the chance of a big one are not good but I still have as much fun as going out west or Canada. The only reason I go west is to hunt more. Where this will end up is a big guess but we have to appreciate the fact we can still hunt!!!!!

So let me get this straight?? Because such a high % of hunters choose to enjoy the sport differently than you, you think they are in the wrong and are jeopardizing the future of our sport?
Who are you to say that the way you enjoy the sport isnt whats jeopardizing our sport. Let hunters enjoy our great sport the way they choose and stop critisizing other hunters because they think differently than you. Its narrow minded hunters like you who try to divide us by critisizing other hunters that is going to put the future of our sport in jeopardy. It seems to me that you feel embarassed to harvest what you do (which you shouldnt) and for what ever reason need to justify to other hunters why you harvest what you choose to harvest because other hunters have a different opinion as of what is a trophy in your eye's. Harvest what makes you happy and stay out of other hunters business.
After all this antler worship that you despise so much dates back long before the palaces of the Roman empire and the majestic castles of Europe. Pike

This is an excellent topic and post!

I agree on the TV shows. What a bunch of garbage. Some "ace" hunter pays some game farm a bunch of money to release the biggest buck he has for the idiot to kill. He dinks around looking at it with binnoculars until he finally decides it's "big" enough and then dinks around and dinks around aiming before he finally takes the safety off. I GUARANTEE you that doing that in a real hunting situation in Wisconsin, he would NEVER kill anything. And I don't know what kind of bullets they use but when I hit a deer in the vitals with a good deer caliber they drop down. The deer on tv run for a 100 yards! I can only assume that the "ace" hunter gut shot it or hit it in the tail.

We have an agreement with the other landowners around our area to not shoot young bucks. We don't expect them to grow into world records but just good bucks and it's working. I've taken two nice (17-18" spread) nine point bucks and the last couple years have let similar ones go waiting for a bigger one but guess what. This year I'm taking a decent one since the real monsters on our land (huge 13 pointer on camera this year) never bother to come by me. (Maybe I smell bad?).... :rolleye0011:

Bottom line is hunt the way you get satisfaction from it and don't criticize those who do it differently. Some go for the meat, some go for the horns. Some go for both reasons. Nothing wrong with it either.

I find that the longer I bowhunt the more my priorities change in the stand. When I was a younger man (a teenager) I was happy to see a deer let alone kill one. My first buck kill was a 4 point fork horn. My greatest accomplishment in my opinion. As I have gotten older (33 now) I find that my time in the woods is far more precious to me then I ever imagined. I met my fiancee' 4 years ago and she is now a bow hunter. I sold my 14 year old neighbor a spare bow I had and now he is looking forward to hunting the youth season Saturday morning. I'll be up with him and in the stand with him as the sun rises on Saturday morning. That's what hunting has become to me. I have killed some big deer since my first buck and I will let young deer walk right by me all day until I see a deer I'm interested in harvesting. That doesn't mean I've lost focus. It means my standards and my expectations of my own hunting ability have increased. Just like everything else in life we all start at a basement level and work our way towards something. That something is different for everyone. What a trophy animal is can only be determined by the person who harvested that animal. When I get into my stand I pray to the Lord to keep me safe and return me home. I pray in thanks for the opportunity to hunt in His wilderness. I pray for all of the hunters hunting that day, that they may have a successful and SAFE hunt. I don't know any of you but you're all included in my prayer. We're all brothers and sisters in the woods. What I don't pray for is a big buck to walk right by me. In my mind the very fact that I'm in a treestand has already made my morning a success.

Bottom line.. Focus has not changed..
No matter how you hunt, or what you kill or don't ,and how you go about doing it, hunting will make great memories, and enjoyment..
It's not Trophy Hunting that will kill the sport..
It's illegal hunting activity and practices, that will kill the sport and that's how focus gets lost, among both hunters and non hunters..
There is only one to blame, the ones doing it..
To sum it up, Focus on yourself and what you do, if you start thinking about what everyone else does, or doesn't do according to your beliefs,
(not the Law but your beliefs) your focus will be lost, nobody else will lose their focus.. Just you..

I think it works out pretty good. Some people hold out for the big ones, some don't. Keeps us all from chasing the same group of deer. Neither is right or wrong IMO. Hunting shows, magizines, etc are keeping the sport alive by enticing new hunters, I don't see how that is a bad thing.

I would agree that the deer hunting equipment industry is exploiting hunters a bit for financial gain. But the plus side of all this is that younger hunters from non-hunting families are being drawn into the sport by fancy technology and the cable hunting shows - face it kids now watch TV a lot and these hunting shows can get them into the sport. Also, the high tech stuff appeals to them. And we need hunters - politicians pay attention to large voting blocks. Also without enough hunters herds will get too large and then the wolf-lovers will start pushing for more wolves to control herds. These new hunters might have a different mindset of maybe the "TV hunter", but as long as they act courteous I am OK with it.

For sure SJAdventures! I would rather not hunt than to ever impose upon a young hunter some ridiculous standard as regards what size Buck he or she must take.

Two things that annoy me:

1- Guys who walk around in blue jeans, walk up to a bunch of bucks and talk about which animal they should harvest. None of the deer spook.

2- A guy who lets the biggest buck of his life walk by because his camera man doesn't have a good angle.


Both scenarios look like fiction to most hunters.

I think for the most part as hunters we haven't lost the focus of the sport. Some people choose to only shoot large bucks, others choose to shoot the first legal meat they see. I'm halfway in between personally. Early Bow season it's gotta be an 8 point or better, also does. Come rifle season, if It's legal I'll probably take it because I typically don't have much time to bow hunt late season.
So, for me it's not so much about "Not shooting small bucks and letting them grow" because I have no issue with shooting a small buck. I just wait for an 8 point or larger just because I'd like to shoot a bigger one.
What has become an issue to me is the TV shows and the media and commercialization of hunting. My favorite part of hunting is the family and friends I spend the season with. And very few shows focus on what I find important.
Basically, if it's legal, go for it.
-Jake

There is absolutely nothing wrong with being a trophy hunter if that is what a hunter is looking for in their hunting experience or shooting a smaller legal buck/deer if that is what a hunter is looking for in their hunting experience. The problem lies when one looks down on the other. Unfortunately it is usually the trophy hunter who looks down on the non-trophy hunter. Not always but I see this more than the meat hunter looking down on a guy who hunted 1 buck for 4 years before finally shooting it. It is personal preference and no one else's business.

Amen brother, glad to swse someone else think abotu thngs like that. But, I suspedt the "enjoy ment of ehy chase is not appreciated until fetr we hae ane a few orselves.

fo me - it is outwitting abuck, or patternig him, and then being in a spot where he walk by me at 15 yards, and maybe I let him go - so i can do it again, becuse I'm doing research. Thsi i s fun... and rewarding. Take a photo, it looks just as good on the wall.

TR why are your so called articles checked for spelling and not your posts.

Hey Gonewest,
 

I was out there long before the compound. Back then if you stopped at a hotel during rifle season for a sandwich and beer and mentioned bow hunting, it was likely you would get your butt kicked by a crowd of rifle hunters. Christ they hated bowhunters! Then came the compound bow and a lot of those same guys found an easy way to kill a big buck. Suddenly everybody "used to bowhunt" and they were going to start again. Yeah, you are right, it really brought the slobs out. There was probably more slob hunting, and snob hunting years ago then today. The difference is now arrogant, sloppy, borderline legal behavior is accepted and not frowned on. I hunt strictly land open to the public so I really don't know too many "Trophy Hunters". The Trophy hunters I have run into are mostly BS'ers and usually doing something right on the border of legal. Years back I was checking fox traps and I caught a well known Outdoor Writer doing something illegal. It was just like Gonewest said. He moved in, owned almost no woods, posted it, and then when he could not entice a deer to his property with baiting(illegal then) he tried baiting on other peoples property. Yeah, things have gotten worse.

"so called articles" Do you expect someone to answer you when yo are deragotroy or malignting about them? Is that you way you treat all p0eople you do not know? NOt exactly of on the right foot.

There is a good reason. I'll answer you if you really want to know and are polite about it. I expect you didnt' really want to now.

May God bless you,

T.R.