Taking the hunter's safety course.
 

Hi all. My daughter and I are taking the course together. Yesterday was our third class. We have a bunch of great instructors. It's fun to listen to them talk. Especially like the target practice. But, those rest benches are very uncomfortable. I still shoot pretty good, always hit the target. I'm not new to shooting guns, some of the kids in class have never shot a gun before. some miss their target completely. I hope they keep their targets (provided they do improve) to remind them of how good they got by the end of the course. I'm keeping my daughters. She's only missed the target a couple times.

Do the instructors set the sights to miss the bull's eye on purpose? I get good groups, but this last time, it was all to the right of the center. Is it to tell who's really aiming where they are told? I had to chuckle at the boy sitting next to me, he asked the instructor if we can aim for the bull's eye today. "NOOOOO" was the instructors' response. He's kind of an intimidating instructor, you can really tell he is a gun enthusiast.

Can't wait for the next class!! :D

Congrats to the both of you,
Not sure about guns used,
Remember purpose of the course is to make sure your safe and ethical, not to make marksmen out of you,
Don't know if they intentionally misalign the sights,
Or could be they use whatever guns they can get a hold of and may not be sighted in on a regular basis,
They may be lower quality, and/or get banged around a lot during transport for the classess.

When I took the class they had me shoot a 22 singleshot and a 20ga 1100 Remington and they didn't give us a target to shoot at. Just shoot downrange lol

Well the practical training should not only be based on identifying, safety and ethics it should also be marksmanship as well.
If people are consistantly missing their targets they have no business hunting or even passing the Practical exam.What B.S.

if yer grouping yer good, cause you will adjust your own sights on your own gun.
maybe he isnt using his dominant eye, or maybe the gun isnt sighted in correctly, because his story seems to indicate he wasnt the only one.

Yes, Terasec, safety first! I was just curious. But, knowing how to aim, I would think, is a part of learning to hunt safely, as well as learning the feel of how a gun kicks.

Backwoods7, right now, we're shooting 22 singleshot with open sights. I know the open sights are a bit tricky when your starting out. From what I understand, we will get to shoot just about everything. We have about 7 instructors, we get to shoot some of their own personal guns. My daughter is looking forward to shooting the handguns. At the end of the course we get to shoot clay pigeons. That'll be fun.

yes,
accuracy is important,
and instructors generally do discuss that,
but for the course they are probably more concerned with how he/she handles that gun, before, during and after the shot.
they cant train everyone on every type of gun, practice will come on your own time,
only 10-12 hrs in the course,

I wasn't refering to the original poster. In fact I complement him on tge fact he is concerned about his grouping and accuracy. I'm just saying in,and I understand the fact that hours in the pratical
exam are restricted amount of time.But people would put more time in on praticing their shooting skills if their hunting licence was on the line.

Well, sort of. Most of the students are pretty young, and not the best shooters yet.

The real focus of Hunters Education is safety. Learning the basic rules of safety, and ingraining them so that they follow them.

Marksmanship comes if the class can handle that training, and has the proper rifles to allow for that. When I went through hunters safety course I was glad the class was short on guns so I could use my Father's Ruger 10/22. I was the "best" marksman in the class because I had a gun I was familiar with, and the sights were set properly.

Leave marksmanship to later. Ingrain safety first, and then move on to the shooting mechanics.

I understand most beginning shooters are young.
And I agree safety first but if that person regardless of age can't hit that target when he's in school. Fail him or her.That is the only way they will learn. If a person gets discouraged and quits over failure
they don't deserve it to begin, their immaturity just showed.Failure can be a positive thing, and the best time to fail is in school not out in the field.If my kid couldn't shoot worth a crap but was the safest person that ever handled a firearm and wrote a book on ethics, I still wouldn't let him hunt anything living until that part was proven.Cause he does not deserve it. Safety first always, shot placement is next, a quick clean kill is the first rule in ethics.

Wait? How ethical is it to have a kid who has never shot a gun take a hunter's safety course? They need more gun time that 3 days during a course with a 22 to be comfortable with a deer rifle. Some people just don't think

to some hunter ed class is first experience they have to hunting and/or guns,
class is to make sure that individual is safe with that gun,
not to make him a good shot,
safe around other people is priority,

personally i would like to see hunter ed expanded to cover more things in detail,
current hunter ed is 10-12 hrs
would extending it to 12-20 hrs be fair?

my gripe with hunter ed is why make gun basic class, then additional for bow?
shouldnt it be other way around, basic class can hunt with a bow,
then additional class covering gun hunting alone?

here, the course is 12 weeks long, once a week for about 3 hrs a class. we are fortunate to be able to shoot 10 rounds each class. most of the people taking the course are 11- 15 yr olds, with the exception of a few parents taking it. I like the hands on training. I wouldn't want to be standing next to someone that aced the test, but has had no hands on experience. Confidence in handling a fire arm is important. Just because you know all the 12 commandments, because you have them memorized, doesnt mean you will naturally be able to follow through on them,at the end of the day all the schooling in the world doesn't beat hands on experience and I dont mean being accurate but being safe. natural instinct verses taught instinct.

example: everyone in class knows the commandments, while we were learning the different actions, and how to check and see if they are loaded. a number of the kids took the gun from the instructor, the instructor immediately ducked out of the way because the kid didn't have control of the muzzle direction.

Tera some states run both classes and require both classes. Wisconsin does not.

The biggest gripe I hear is the class is too long. Todays students are involved in way too many activities so their time is a premium. That based with the fact that the majority of Hunter Ed Instructors are unpaid volunteers.
WE used to have a class that lasted 10 weeks ~ 3 hrs once a week and the state went to 10-12 hr min.

In Wisc
10 hrs min - so I run a class twice a week for 2.5 hrs
We do have an optional shoot
Need to pass the Hands on Field Test and Written test in both no less tha 80%. That is a change as it was 75%.

You can't cover much in that time at all. We (my instructor group) push back on the students to cover the book on their own and to ask questions during class. I do cover the quiz section. each week but we fly thru the book. We try to teach the basics with as much actual handling of the 5 different firearm actions as we can and do include a blood trail,/tree stand demo & safety/ hunting scenrios - zones of fire with w/frisbee/ simple compass course and tracking demos.


Time in the class goes quick = wish I could do more but I need to stay to the state mandated syllabus.

JW

That sounds like a fun class, JW! I wonder if we'll be doing something like the blood trail thing. I would definately like to know what to look for. (hoping that I would never have to.) setting up a tree stand would also be something I'd be interested in.

JW hit the problem with Wisconsin's hunter education requirements dead on. It's not a lot of class time. I don't even remember how much time I had when I took the course almost 20 years ago now. It was not enough, and now they have even less time.

Well, when I took the course in PA 16 years or so ago it was 3 days back to back for 3-4 hours per class. Worked out great for me because I was at my grandfather's for the summer. I had been shooting for several years already and didn't need rifle time on the course. That being said, I think I was about average on being prepared for the class. At the time/location there wasn't a single kid who had never shot a gun before.
IMHO if hunters safety class is the first time your kid has shot a gun, hold off on the class and take them to a range and work them up to the gun they are going to be using. That is the only way to be sure they will be comfortable with their equipment and not screw up the shot because they are unsure about their gun. Other factors I can excuse, but being unfamiliar with your or any gun is inexcusable.

Just how much time do you think one should spend in class? I am an upaid volunteer. If it was not for US volunteers many many hunters out there would not be able to hunt!

I expose the student is all I do ~ teach the 4 rules of Hunter Safety the best I can, Expose the student to proper gun handling, shooting postions, how to match a cartidge or shotshell to a weapon and the rudimentry how to sight, and then fire in the common 5 different actions one may find. I try to pass on some guidelines to hunt, tree stand safety and a bit of tracking with compass skills. All that in 10to 12 hours of their time. I have a very small window and then it is up to the student and a mentor if they have one. Most do.

One DOES need a Hunter Safety Certificate to purchase a Hunting License if born after a certain date per your states laws. All States have this law.
HOWEVE ~
ONE DOES NOT NEED a Hunter Safety Certificate to purchase a WEAPON or PURCHASE AMMUNITION.

So I find that crazy.
JW

Most instructors are not trying to fit more info in limited time,
but deciding what can be skipped, glanced over quickly to make time for material they deem more important.
10-12 hrs really isnt that much,
especially when you have good discussions going on,
heck a good instructor passionate about teaching can spend the entire class just discussing 1 topic alone,
might learn alot on that topic, but then everything else gets skipped.
myself, i enjoy the classes and find it a small price to pay to spend additional time for a lifetime of hunting

If a parent does not have time to teach a kid to shoot they should not drop them off at a safety course and expect them to learn there. It is amazing what a kid can learn with a bb gun and 30 minutes of your time if you are willing to take them. All my kids could shoot a pop can by the age of 4 or younger. It is a safety course not an accuracy course.

I am thankful to all the volunteers. I think they should really be paid for it, after all, it is a matter of life or death.

There are so many that want to take the course. Our class is always full. They have it twice a week just so everyone has a chance.

It's great that the volunteers are so passionate about it that they want to share the experience with anyone interested.

The instructors showed up the result of a 22 that some kid wanted more power or a bigger bang out of. He loaded the gun, then emptied a few shells of their gun powder and dumped it into the barrel. That gun was totally ripped apart. Even the stock, where the shooter's check would have been, was ripped apart. There were pieces of the gun that they couldn't find. The barrel broke in half. The trigger was completely mangled. I didn't even want to know what happened to the kid, if he survived. That is scary that some kid would even try that.

They showed us a 12-20 split. Over 20 years and I still remember it. A 20 ga. will fit far enough in the barrel of a 12 ga. for a 12 to fit behind it and still fire. Results were not good.

okie

did you know a 3.5 inch shell will fit into a 3 inch chamber?

Why?

Room is left in a 3 inch chamber to account for the crimping of the shell to open. This a 3.5" shell can fit. But IF fired the crimping will not be able to open and bulging to barrel /chamber rupture can happen.

JW

Well if a parent does not have time to teach the kid to shoot where the heck, should the kid learn to shoot. You just expect the parent to dump the kid in the woods and learn on a wim, on a live animal?
Remember the parent doesn't have time, and you figure they should not learn from the safety course.This makes alot of sense.Seems someones or more likely some animal, is getting the ****ty end of the stick, when I think about your way. Thankfully in British Columbia. you can only get your lifetime Hunting Number Permit through the Conservation and Outdoor Recreation Education Course. Much more entailed than just safety.
Your way sucks ****.

Here in illinois i loved our local safety course. I have been hunting/shooting since I was a kid 40 years ago. But this year my 9 year old wanted to start hunting. He has been shooting with me since age 2. Our law says he has to have the safety course. By law I did not. So I took the course with him anyway. It was great. The last day we got to shoot FULL AUTO stuff that the police dept brought over. We had a blast together. I don't know why anyone would not MAKE time to take the class with their children. I have 4 year old twins and can't wait to take the class again when they are old enough.

I hear ya, naildriver. I am enjoying taking the course with my daughter. I've been waiting a long time to do it. Am looking forward to going out hunting with her as well. i'm always looking for ways to spend some quality time with her. This seemed like a great opportunity.

In British Columbia the CORE program gives you your hunting number permit. Then you must take a totaly different course on safetey and gun handling, this course is Canada wide, it goes threw various types of firearms, types of of actions,know how to differentiate between calibers and gauges muzzleloaders. If the course is taken and passed on both the written and practical test. You are entitled somewhat to a Possessession and Aquisition Licence.A form is filled out questions are asked about your personal history, and is sent away.Generally for most people a licence is givin to you, some are turned down, but there probably is good reason for it.A course and a test shouldn't be all you need background checks are mandtaory up here, I agree with that. But once you get that license in the mail,it permits you to own, borrow, buy sell trade posess non restricted firearms.If you want restricted firearms (eg. a handgun) you must take another course and pass course after you recieve your unrestricted PAL to get both the restricted and unrestricted PAL permit.Very involved, lots of hours spent, but that's not a bad thing.Our annual Canada wide hunting accident track record speaks for itself.

As bad as they are, I'll take USA gun laws over anything Canada has.

IMO if you did something that should to preclude you from owning a gun or hunting then you should be in jail. A free man should be allowed to own firearms and hunt.

Don't jump to conclusions, They don't do background checks just for crimnal history.Divorce is the biggest., if you have been divorced the ex spouce has to sign it and swear you are safe and mentally stable to be allowed to posses.big question here on this forum was a person who is bi-polar. Lots of American people didn't like the fact he or she could posses a firearm.Probably very law abiding individual, never did a thing wrong with the law yet. Lots of Americans said don't allow him to have a rifle on this forum.Hear he'd probably never get one. 2009 Showed we had something close to a total of 860 firearm fatalities. 75% of those where suicide. They check loss of jobs, loss of famiy members. Wevjust don't give out anymore assuming everything is allright. Free man can still be unstable especially in this economy. So approx 200 per year are accident related most of those
at home not in the field.The list goes on. The people who deserve to have firearms do get it.

In my opinion, our firearms laws suck!! Those back ground checks and waiting periods do nothing but inconvenience the legal guy. I dont know too many criminals that are going to go down and try to legally obtain a firearm. Criminals are going to get firearms, it doesnt matter what kind of laws or stipulations you have on them, look at drugs, people are able to get those pretty freely even though they are illeagle. Just my opinion!

If the parent does not have 30 minutes maybe they should not have the kids to start with. Dump a kid in the woods? Where did I say that? They should not be in the woods period without an adult if they have no experience, safety course or not. How does your course teach them to deal with buck fever? In my opinion that is one of the most dangerous things in the woods. My son hunted with me by his side until he was 13. He killed his first deer laying on my back and me holding the gun and aiming for him while he pulled the trigger. He was 3 years old. I know some live in non hunting families and in such case should have a mentor. A course will NOT guarantee anyone to be safe for a lifetime, hell anyone can make a mistake. I could go on but I won't. I am just glad you are happy with your laws and I am glad I am not in the woods with a bunch of kids that took a course and got turned loose in the woods. I know several kids here that got a lifetime license for their 1st birthday.

I'm glad you clarified that the kids shouldn't be hunting to begin with.
You Failed to mention that in the original post. Since this is a safety
issue thread I don't Assume anything.I asked.. What do you expect the Parent to do, cause once again you Failed to mention the parent shouldn't not have him in the woods hunting.You just mentioned the kid shouldn't be practicing his shooting in a safety course. Once again this is a thread on Safe hunting and assuming gets you or someone or an animal hurt or killed. Clairification is key dude. And I hope you don't have those kids out there hunting, I don't assume everbody follows what you do.I certainly don't assume, I know there are kids out there shooting on a whim.

Ill go a step further and say criminals are going to commit crimes whether they have a gun or not.

that is the most absurd thing Ive read in a while, lemme get this straight,your gun rights are at the mercy of a woman who probably hates your guts at that point, you gotta be kidding me, right? I dont know what thread youre referring to but Im guessing youre talking about a MAX of about 25 people here. thats not "lots of americans". Oh really? Sounds to me like a person can get denied simply for having a spiteful ex wife or is unemployed ...sounds like a buncha crap to me:s6:

Sticker Printing
 

i always like to read some good and informative
blogs and this blog is also so good and helpful.
thanks for taking time to discus this topic..

Well, I think that being bi-polar should be a disqualification for gun ownership. I know two people who are bi-polar.

Yes, when on medication, they are fine. However, they get all out of sorts if they go off of the meds. Will they shoot someone? Probably not, but it is a severe disorder where they put themselves in great danger if they go off their medication.

Divorce on the other hand, is not a disqualifier. Let's be realistic here, who doesn't know a couple that had a vicious divorce proceedings? I know enough people who hate their exes with so much rage that they would make them miserable as possible many years after the divorce is over.

The only time personal relationships can come into play, is if there is documented domestic abuse. That comes about from criminal proceedings, and not talking to any ex.

I'd take the gun ownership laws in my home state over those in Canada any day of the week. Wisconsin is even behind the times when it comes to self defense laws, and we still don't have a CC law. I'm waiting to see what changes are brought about by the now conservatively led houses and Governor.

Shooting at targets has nothing to do with hunter safety. If you are a lousy shot, big deal. My cousin used to shoot on an archery team back when there were only real bows. The archery team took on the pistol team every year and beat them every year. My cousin tried bow hunting only one year and quit because he could not get an arrow near a deer. Whenever he got close to a deer, he became so excited he simply could not hit it.
I have seen this "buck fever" many times with gun hunters also. I actually knew one guy that hunted 30-40 years and never shot a buck. If a buck walked up to him, he just sat there and looked at it, unable to move. Anyway, not a great shot? Big deal. You have to start somewhere.