Run in with a Rancher Today
 

Went hunting this morn. Turned off toward a Lake Resort and wanted to drive into the back of this country to hunt on crown land.
Got way back there park my truck started working my way down
the rim rock sage brush Coulies that over look this lake.
Down at the bottem are ranching fields.Deer work their way up and down this slope all day. I always carry a GPS that traverses all area I walk.I had to get stuff hung up and Pumkins carved for Halloween this afternoon so I left at noon to be back home in time to get started.Anyways Im driving home and a truck Was coming towards me so I pulled over to chat. Well he's the owner of the Ranch fown below and asks me where I was hunting told him where I was.
He then procedes to tell me it's private property and I had no right hunting. I look at him and said do I look stupid? Went to my truck
grabbed my binder with all the land tiles and property that are held to the public private sector and leased.I said you don't own where I hunt. I didn't treespass your property to get there and said are you
done yet?I told him I don't give a godamn crap where you think people should hunt. The fact is I am miles away from any major road or building Or structure,well within my legal bounds. You try stopping me from hunting this area it's your livelyhood going down not mine.You may pull this **** off with other guys but you ain't going to happen to me.The fact is your fields boarder crown land, and if you do anything to hinder me from hunting I will be the one doing the reporting and I showed him the British Columbia Provincial Regs that states Report anybody who prevents or blocks access to crown land.I told him if I see the ditched or posted it's your ass. Then I got in my truck told him to take my license plate of he had a concern but I'm leaving and I'm coming back in tomorrow.He drove off pissed.
I drove off shaking my head. Some peoples mentality.

yea ive been there too. its funny 2 years ago we had a guys come on our property and tell us we were on their buddies property. they failed to notice the NO TRESSPASSING signs they walked by onto our land..

Sounds like the rancher had a run in with you! Hahaha Good for you Jeff! Way to read him the riot act!!!!
Live it up! Doug

I don't know I don't know what to think of this.The fact is I know where I am at all times and I know the laws inside out and I provide back up to prove it. It began when I was 10 and taking my CORE. During the practical exam of the test my instructor asked me what I do when I want to cross a fence. My answer. Am I allowed to hunt the property on the other side of the fence.Fences are often boundaries and I want to know and I want permission. The Instructor was floored. Nobody in his years ever ever responded that way. When he said yes I showed him how to safely unload and cross.Every year I'm down at the ministry of lands and titles getting the most current info.I know his land is private I know the boundaries. It's on my GPS downloaded the most current info that was only one month old.It wasn't for sale and won't be leased made sure. And the thing that frustrates me the most is I help these people more than they know. I'm lucky that I don't need to ask to hunt land but I do take advantage of private. One can go to any land titles crossreference with google earth and refer to you hunting map regs and find loop
holes every where. 3 years ago I went on Cadastre, Google Earth,
and the Ministry of Kand and Titles, and found out that there was
legal crown land that could be hunted between 2 private properties.
Very very few people new this besides me, maybe a handleful the
landowners and that's about it. It was about a hundred meters off the
highway a small area but deep gully steep hillside lots rimrock between two pieces of private property. Lots of deer are seen but
3years ago it housed 19 bucks over the spring and summer.The deer considered it a was a safe zone although it was on legal huntable
land. I knew about it, but never ever shot that area cause I personally considered it an unsafe place to shoot.But because this road is not maintained by the Provincial Government of Highways or
City, and the land on both sides of the highwayswhere private the
Regs stated that you could shoot right off the main highway so long
as you where off the paved surface.The ditch sufficed.Lots were shot
this way, some legally most not but regardless after I saw all these
bucks in the summer I knew that these Ranchers would have a
problem when the season started if people found out it was crown
land. During a Wildlife Federation meeting I brought this concern up
to members and together we changed the law about shooting off the highway, to save people driving down the highway the Ranchers themselves and their families and domestic animals before a potentially serious problem occured. Managed to get it done before
the season started.A manadatiry min legal shooting distance was set
on this highway for strectch of 6 km, to include this piece of land and
some others that where found later.I don't like being lied to. I was
well within my legal right, to be where I was or anybody else for that
matter. I'm sure he is the minority of the Ranching community, but it
gets me wondering just to what lenghts some people really really go
when it comes to protection of area that isn't even theirs and greed.
It's Sad.

Good job I've had a similar problem a guy was on my land in a stand my cousin has well I asked my cuz if he minded me sitting there one morning he had no problem with it so Monday mornin gets there I go to get in the stand there's a guy in it and he tells me that he has permission to hunt it I said oh really who the f*** gave it to you he said some name I never herd so I told him well it's not there land it belongs to my dad and my uncle and we don't like tresspassers and that he needs to leave and if I see him on it again I'd call the DNR had no trouble from him since.

I was hunting on a timber companys land that allowed hunting. A guy walked all the way up the hill to where I was sitting. He started to explain to me that he and his father had the land leased. It was my first time there, but I was pretty sure he was full of it. I didn't know this guy or what he might do but he was unarmed as far as I could tell. I shifte my rifle to where it was pointing a little closer to him but not at him and put my finger near the trigger but not on it. He got nervous and told me I could finish hunting that day. :D

Turned out he was lying and he and his dad had actually posted the land once to keep people away and the game warden made him take the signs down.

Maybe there is more to the story, but I would like for you to consider the following. Maybe the rancher did not know it was available to hunting. Maybe he has had problems in the past with livestock being hit. Maybe he has had bullets flying over his head in the past. If he knew and lied, that is not right. If he was not aware, you may have lost additional land on which to hunt.

Here is a suggestion, and you can take it or leave it. You stated you already have copies of all the land titles in the areas you hunt. Notify land owners of the bordering lands to let them know you may be hunting in the area. It is reassuring for landowners to at least had contact with the people firing guns near their property. If the landowners have an opportunity to get to know you and feel you are safe, they may offer you to hunt on their land in the future.

Getting into a war of words with landowners and locals is not going to benefit you in any way. Again, I don't know the whole story. However, with what you described a lot of land owners who have livestock would find your actions and attitude out of line. When the rancher tells his story, you would appear as a hothead who has a short fuse, and no landowner wants someone like that firing a gun anywhere near their property. If you truly feel that you were out of line, contact the rancher and apologize. If you don't feel you were out of line, don't contact him to apologize.

good point Country1. I have a good relationship with all the landowners around my lease grounds, never know if the deer you shoot will run onto their land....and it sure makes recovering easier if you can approach them witha good attitude and relationship in hand.

These Ranches have been around since before I was born.
These Ranches are probably 100 years old if not more.Nobody
buys property and doesn't know where their property ends and what's next to it. You get a map when you purchase land or even if your interested about buying it. The Real Estate agent gives it to you and explains it you sign documents.Documents must be signed be a Notry Public and you infront of him. Common. As far as Deer running onto has kand Im positive it has happened. I'm positive deer have been shot on his land I have never been personally responsible for it, but I do take the blame for being a hunter. I am part of Wilderness Watch program Watch Observe and Report.I have turned fellow hunters in for
not following the laws. Reguardless Im not going to appologize he outright lied, and if If he tries it again I will watch observe and report his ass to court.

was he there again today?

I never managed to get out today.Woke up at 5, my wife looked really really hot, so thought I'd hunt her of her instead.After a successful morn. I made coffee and breakfast for the family. The kids had some more good ideas with what to do with Halloween so I gonna help them get that organized and set up.I won't be going tonight cause of fireworks and handing treats. The rut won't be for another week it looks like, Only saw does Alot of then though, and a few small local bucks.I'm going to start hunting much higher elevations from here on in, so I may not even get back there this year.It's cold, but not really cold and we have no snow to bring them down yet, So even if we get a dump in the mountains early this week it will take them a few days to hit mid elevation. And won't be at these lower levels till later possibly mid Nov.We'll see work is really busy, so if I get out I get out. I've got meat in the freezer till last till spring and fishing starts so it's not like I'm destitute and really really need to kill an animal.I want to though, but don't need to.

just becareful tomorrow, you dont no what he might try to pull, weather he just trys to scare your deer away or if he cuts your truck tires, you dont no what he is crazy enough to do, lets hope you didnt push him to that point


he might try and like put barbed wire in the road or somthing sense he is a rancher and would have acess to a material like that

Sounds like a good way to get yourself killed.

I live in the east not the west and I'm sure things are different out there. But >>>and this is just my opinion.
I don't see the need in pissing anyone off, a lot of people want "just that" from us. If your right your right, period! and telling them in a nice way just makes you "right" all the more.
If they get nasty be nicer...let the game officials be the bad guys...its just a cell phone call away.

I've had neighbors twice ask me if I was tresspassing while hunting on my Mom's farm. Funny part is, they were on our side of the fence both times.

It is statements like these that give a lot of landowners negative views of hunters in general. A lot of hunters who do not own land whine and complain about the landowners when they do not give them hunting access, but I see a lot of cases where landowners are mocked, ridiculed, called crazy and talked down - even on this forum. The last time I pointed this out, a poster commented that the person was just relaying a funny story.

Buy some land. After dealing with trespassers, litter bugs, trash dumpers and vandals it is likely you will have a much different attitude and show proper respect for landowners in general. This landowner being older we should automatically show him some respect. What happened to respecting your elders? Continue with your improper attitudes and see what that gets you with the landowners and locals. All it will due is harm the already fragile relationship between landowners and hunters. That should make PETA and the anti-gunners really happy.

This is my view point as well, I totally agree with it. Don't get me wrong I love to fight, I'll throw hands with someone twice my size. Even if I lose I walk away learning something. [ like not messing with someone twice my size:biggrin:]
But yeah I abide by the more flys with honey saying. Not judging, I wasn't there and don't know the situation but would hate to know your worrying about your vehicle when ya should be out enjoying the woods. My .02 cents
Good luck with the season!

i was not saying that to be negative twoars land owners at all, my family owns 300 acers and it gets trespassed on all the time, we actually have trail came pictures of people going around our gates and it really makes me mad, they better hope we dont catch them in there in person but anyway im just saying , you dont no how far people would be willing to go to keep you out of some places

i never ment my statement to be negative twoards any land owners sense i am a land owner my self

Well I'll start out with a friendly note.Happy Halloween. Just got back home from the fireworks.Everone in our neighborhood chipped a hundreded bucks and we got about 5 minutes of sparkles flying in the air. LOL.The familly fun, I had fun.The house and yard are still haunted, will be till tomorrow evening. Anyways My brother dropped by today and I told him what happened. He and my Dad are both accountants and are partners in a firm together. Apparently he knows a Lawyer who is allowed to hunt this property and my brother has met the owner personally. He thinks the guy I lost my temper on was an impersonater.My brother was saying that that land back there holds no cattle this time of year,there maybe strays, but doubtful,the cattle are moved to their wintering grounds or other areas, and it's just a couple of hay fields.This time of year his friend is encouraged to hunt back there cause of the cattle thing.My brother was telling me the owner is quite a nice gentleman and understands the property he bought, has crown land beside his property, and moves his cattle just
before the season starts .So it looks like I may have been duped.My
brother is gonna talk to this Lawyer buddy of his,about the incident, and see if he can catch wind of it. I'll fill you guys in tomorrow or as soon as possible..Yeah I do feel stupid and I am stupid for getting pissed off over this thing now that new info has come forward. If it turns out I publically humiliated this paricular Rancher even though I didn't use his name or where he lived,and other Ranchers in general and once again created a war on this site this time over Hunters and Ranchers instead of what should of been over Hunters and Peta cause no fellow hunter would ever do this.I will appologize I will accept the blame I have a brain, eyes and reasonably big shoulders I will read what you have to write.I do feel bad I will keep you updated and I
will be upfront and honest.Well till tomorrow.

yeah, when we bought 40 acres..we wentt out the 1st time...we were stuck in a creek, and a truck came down the hill..guy got out with a gun..told us he called the cops..we better leave..so we took our sweet time gettin unstuck...when the cops got there, we had a tresspass put on the guy..he was dumfounded and acted like he was the property owners land manager..turns out his grandpa owned the a joining property...now we are friends...we joke about it all the time.

Well Jeff maybe you did go off half ****ed - or maybe not. You may find out the truth and you may not.

You have all that info. The maps of land titles & cordinates in your GPS. I suggest that you should have added some more info. You offered up that the guy take your plate number - but you should have gotten his. I record plates whenever possible with my cellphone camera. I shoot a couple shots of the plate, a shot of the plate on the vehicle, the vehicle and sometimes a quick video of the vehicle and the surroundings to show just where it is at. And maybe you could have taken his picture, too.

Another nice function of cellphones is voice memo. The legalities surrounding the use of this (and actually the use of pics and video as well) can vary. But if you are not seeking prosecution or legal action based on what you gather and it is just for personal use I doubt anything would become of it from any legal standpoint.

You could have shown the pic to your brother and he could have given you a yes or no right there as to whether this was the actual property owner.

So my brother phoned me while I was having dinner and I called him back about half hour ago.It was the Rancher, apparently he's had a tough with hunters,and tresspassers on all his land and several cows have been shot.He had to deal with getting one guy cause he didn't bring a chain saw with him and his truck was too big to back out and turn around. He has found gut piles well inside his property boudaries indicating to him that hunters are hunting and shooting.He just has had enough.He just assumed I was just another guy hunting and tresspassing his property and lucky enough not to get caught when I met up with him.I asked my brother if he still thinks so, my brother doesn't know, if his Lawyer buddy touch into it at all with the Rancher. He just called as a friend. So yeah I won't go back there at all this year, It pisses me off to think that not only does he think all hunters do this but he may think that I do it as well. I guess he's seen lots of evidence to prove it.Can't blame him for thinking it, but I didn't deserve to get accussed of something I didn't do either.That's pretty serious in itself.Yeah so I hope he catches these culprits and presses charges on them to the full extent of the Law.I hope these people are found guilty and fines and jail time are to the full extent of the Law. But yeah I don't need this hassel myself, especially over a
stupid deer I can find anywhere.So yeah, I won't go back, I'm not
gonna phone him up and appologize for something I never did, but if I get introduced to him I will appologize to him for the way a few of
us hunters act.That's about it.

Yea sorry to hear that Jeff. It is a reality that a few bad apples ruin it for every one else. No matter where you go someone is going to abuse the system. All we can do is keep doing the right thing and combat the one's who are abusing their privileges. Sorry to hear you lost a place to hunt because of others not being responsible enough to act in a mature and respectable manner! It's hard when people suspect everyone when it's just a few doing wrong. Good luck!
Live it up! Doug

I hope it works out for you. We have never had livestock shot; but we have had ATV's and vehicles driven through unharvested crops, theft, vandalism, trespassing, hunting and littering on posted property. Once, a person without permission was hunting one our of properties and started a fire on it. I can understand how this landowner is fed up with people on his property.

Sounds like you found what you were looking for. Now it's time to MAN UP and go hunt a good spot. more respect for understanding his long term problem, with shady so called hunters. Than your own veiws of being right to start with. If you don't go back. we all fall in the group that shoot what we want , when we want, where we want, prove him wrong . That you are one of the good guy's.

I did not create the dangerous situation, he did. I only reacted to it to make sure I was the one that walked away.

Oh I have every intention of going hunting.So long as it doesn't interfere with my work, I'll be out as often as I can.And for the record I wasn't fighting so I could be right. I was fighting cause of an accusation that wasn't true, I know I wouldn't have been charged, but police could have been involved and that could have, caused embarrassment to me,Especialy
if my kids heard about it.I am gonna fight for it everytime.I am gonna bring my Iphone from now on, and use the video record app.Never thought I'd need my phone in the bush cause I can't get any network or phone service but I can get videos and pics.Thanks for the suggestion Matt. As far as sticking up for hunters rights and privledges Im gone continue to do so but at the same time we must earn it and it will take everyones input to do it.These small group of people are killing the the hunting sport.
I will keep up the fight I know it's gonna be an uphill battle but Im in the
march but I know we will get the respect we deserve.

Jeff,

First off, good for you !

Second, thanks for representing yourself so well for all of us "good" hunters.

For a group to get respect, that group must first show respect to others and also hold people in its group responsible for their actions. How many times have you had a vehicle speeding by you or been cut off by a vehicle that appears to be owned by a hunter (bumper stickers, window decals, paint job, license plate, etc.)? How often do you see people wearing hunting clothing or hats show courtesy by being friendly and holding doors open for others? How often do you see a hunter helping a person in a parking lot or on the road with directions, a flat tire, dead battery, etc. - especially if the hunter is on their way out to hunt and the vehicle has a PETA or similar bumper sticker? How often have you heard a hunter or someone wearing hunting clothing tell improper jokes or have a foul mouth - especially when women and/or children are present? How many times have you seen a person with hunting clothing be drinking too much, stumbling when walking or loud mouthed in an eating establishment? How often have you heard hunters talk down landowners (I have seen plenty of that on hunting forums)? The landowner owns the land, pays taxes on the land and is not at all obligated to allow others on their land. How often have you done these things? Do you hold people who are or appear to be a hunter accountable for their actions (good and bad) in public? After a group shows the proper respect for others and police their own, they will earn the respect of others.

He brings up a good point. I'd hate to imagine that your shoot a monster and it runs onto this landowners property and you can't retrieve him. If he was misinformed or misleading you, you showed him that he was wrong. Might be benifitual to contact the surrounding landowners just in case you need to retrieve your deer or to avoid contact like these in the future.

Actually YOU did create the dangerous situation. You stated yourself that the guy was NOT armed. From my experience in Law Enforcement you escalated the situation by pointing your gun in the guys direction. I'm sure that if the Timber Company learned of this situation they probably would've banned hunting on the property. The crazy thing is that you stated you actually put your finger on the trigger!! If that gun would've went off and you shot the guy (I lnow the gun was directly pointed at the guy but it could bounce off of something), you would be in jail! Period! You would risk your freedom, someone elses life and ruin the priviliges and respect of your fellow hunters b/c you think your entiltled to hunt somewhere?? Your post really baffles me! At first I thought you were kidding, but it doesn't sound like you are!

I stated that as far as I could tell he was not armed. There is no way to know about concealed weapons. I will always assume that anyone dumb enough to approach an armed man with mischief in mind is probably packing.

I also stated that I moved the muzzle a little more toward his direction, but not at him. I stated as well that my finger was near the trigger and not on it.

No, I do not think I am entitled to hunt just anywhere. I only hunt where allowed. This man was the one who thought he was entitled by attempting to post property that wasn't his and attempting to run off hunters who were allowed to be there.

I guess you experience in law enforcement didn't make you very observant as you obviously have misstated everything I wrote. I positioned myself to defend myself if necessary and that was all. I am no gun toting crazy person. In fact, I am a Christian and pray that I never have to harm another person. But I will defend myself if necessary and I took steps in that situation to ensure that I could if I had to.

Jeff,
You really represent us well. I would like to urge you to actually contact the rancher and explain that you didnt understand his situation completely and that you understand his point of view and that you will keep an eye out for any wrong doings and report it to the authorities. I think you could probably win him over. Your a very well spoken and reasonable person. I dont think I would give up on hunting the land that I had researched so intensley because you may feel guilty or something. You may even become friends and gain access to his ranch as well.

One of my tricks,
I will have an entire deer processed and drop it off to the land owners unexpectingly just to make a good impression.
It just lets them know you appreciate thier tolerance.

WHY DID YOU EVEN BRING THIS UP?LOL We all know this.
The appreciatve ones pratice it.
Have you read from the beginning. I wasn't on his land. No intentions of tresspassing and hunting on his land. No intentions of ever asking to hunt on his land.I pay taxes I own 2 houses, pay property taxes and have a job an family no Rancher offers me help and the Government doesn't bail me out or give advertisments to by stuff off of me.Listen I can give you a list of what I have done for Ranchers. We had that Mad Cow disease where no cows were allowed to be exported. So I bought a cow every year for 3 years, from an Alberta Rancher even though I had enough meat and I live in B.C. I,m not even in that Province.Im a journeyman carpenter welder and glazier,I have roofed barns for and installed over head garage doors, installed windows, tons of welding, for a flat of beer, I have fenced for less and stacked hay bails for less.Some of my coworkers haves Ranches so I do offer alot of weekend help to them. One day travelling home from work a Rancher was burning his field and the fire got out of control.Spent till 1;30 in the morn helping him.My wife came home from a party last year and lost control of their vehical and ended up off the road.With no cell service, (I think I've mentioned ths a few times) 2 hunters driving by stopped and wasted their whole day pulling them out and bringing my familly into town.Need I say this was the last day of the season.I gave them most of my elk meat for that one.Hunters do help out.Im putting it out there, the majority of hunters will drop anything and everything to help out.Every year my brother and I are in Williams lake for three days of branding, castratating and dehorning calfs.And for the record I have recently seen hunters hold the door open for women and child or for that matter a guy.And I have been cut off by every jerk hunter or not.Bottem line is, hunters are pretty respectable in general, we do have bad apples, but every profession has them even PETA.We will get the respect if we keep the good things happening, up.As far as this particular Rancher goes, I hope he catches them, I hope they are chrged to the full extent of the law. I am sorry this happened to him , but as far as the blatent accussations go, I am still pissed ,and he can thank his stars I didn't charge him.

I brought it up because it was the proper place to bring it up. You mentioned respect for hunters, and I voiced my POV on how that respect can be earned.

Very few hunters properly acknowledge good behavior of other hunters - especially new hunters or younger hunters. When those 'few bad apples' do their misdeeds, a hunter may apologize to those who were unfortunately on the receiving end. However, very few hunters will address the bad apples, their actions and suggest they apologize to those they did not treat properly. Like I stated in my prior post, as hunters we need to police our own. If the few bad apples are not handled properly, we will have more bad apples. Also, when someone looks at a barrel of apples, it is the bad apples that are noticed.

Truthfully, a lot of hunters will do what appears to be the right thing if there may be something in it for them (future hunting access, good image, etc.). There are also those hunters who do the right thing just because it is the right thing to do, and this is what hunters need to teach and encourage. We need to teach and stress to hunters that we do the right thing because it is the right thing to do - not so we might get some benefit out of it at a later date. I see advice on a lot of hunting forums suggesting to do good deeds in hopes of getting hunting access. There are much fewer posts of truly caring about your fellow men and women.

Personally, I believe you should have taken the higher road with the rancher; and I was appalled that others on this forum cheered you on for giving him the riot act. Taking the higher road would have served you and fellow hunters much better. In this thread, it appears you continue to look at the actions of the rancher to justify your actions which did not serve hunters very well. I also believe you know that is true, and it is why you don't plan on going back there this season. Hunters are human - we make mistakes. We also need to man up (which others have suggested) and make amends when we make mistakes.

The above is just my POV and $0.02 worth from a fellow hunter whose family owns hunting property. I don't currently live near this property, so I hunt on private land owned by friends. They became friends long before I hunted on their property, and I was asked by them if I would be interested in hunting on their property.

Take the higher road.LOL. This could gave led to me getting charged for an offence I didn't commit. This could have led to embarrasement and And you want me to take the higher road.I could have lost my vehical, my guns hunting license ,drivers licence lost money in tow bills and fines and possibly recieved jail time or community service hours. These allegations are serious not a joke. Do what you want, but I fight for myself and my family.I will die fighting for something I didn't do.

This could have been done in a much better way. To politely explain why you were there - that there was crown land open to hunting. Asking the rancher if he has had problems and what you can do to help. You stated you did not do anything wrong, so why the worry? There would be no evidence as you have stated.

I did expliain,I stopped to chat with a smile on my face. I politely told him where I was and it was obvious I was hunting cause I told him.He than accussed me of hunting and tresspassing on his property.Didn't ask anything else didn't need to.
Serious threat
Fight is on period.

There is a time and place to be cordial and exchange pleasantries. As Jeff clearly stated that is why he stopped to talk. When met with false accusations and threats. Jeff had every right to defend the honest,and legal activities he was rightly enjoying. I for one am appalled by hunters feeling the need to always apologize just for being hunters. What about hunters that legally do everything the way respectable people do and at every turn are accused of trespassing, or being slob hunters that kill only for the "thrill" of it, being a bunch of drunken, gun toting backwoods billy bobs with no respect for nature or laws.

When approached in a respectable manner and asked questions we respond like wise. When jumped and accused and threatened we respond nicely at first and then if someone persists down the wrong road the riot act is in order. For some people that is all they really understand. I will Not just stand there and allow some one to ream my butt over something someone else has done when I am doing what is legal, proper and well within my rights. I respect you and your rights until you don't respect mine. I expect others to treat me as I would treat them and they have every opportunity to conduct themselves in that manner. When they show that is not their intent and falsely accuse... I will set the record straight. I applaud any and all hunters who stand for what they believe.
Live it up! Doug