I prefer a sharpened stick, myself, but only if its been whittled down with a flint rock. Using a knife is cheating.

hunting over a food plot, corn, bean field or whatever type of large field is hunting, one must look for sign to see where the deer come out of, etc.

Now sitting over bait to me isn't hunting, its killing, but that is me

Ummm.... No. You're not "really" hunting unless you chase it down on foot, grapple it to the ground, and tear its throat out with your teeth. ;)

baiting isn't hunting, placing bait in the woods is the easy way out, learn to read sign

how is it the easy way out if you're simply coaxing them into the area you have to work with? Not everyone has 1500 acres to work with, and have to do the best possible with the cards dealt....

I get a kick out of the idiots that say that hunting next to a planted field is not hunting. If that were the case, then 90%+ of the land area in Iowa would be classified as such. Iowa is mostly tilled farmland. Heck, if you blindly jumped from an airplane over a random point in Iowa, chances are you'll land in a corn field. And if you miss the corn field, you'll probably just hit the soybeans. In the largest local public hunting area closest to me, where I do most of my hunting, the DNR has perhaps 150-200 acres of corn and beans planted solely for wildlife consumption. So if your definition of hunting involves to man-made food sources, then forget about hunting in Iowa.

Mike

I don't use bait, I haven't used a blind in 15 years, heck even bowhunting I hunt from a stool on the ground 3/4 of the time BUT...

RR, I don't know where you live, but when average land plots are 20-40 acres it's a bit different than out west. When I'm out west, I cover a lot of ground glassing. That's not an option in the midwest, where Id be looking across four property lines doing that...two of the four leased and posted.

So is it not hunting when I set aside an acre in the back of my wide, open flat 15 acre property to grow into trees/brush so the deer have some reason to actually come onto my property? Is it hunting when I plant another acre of alfalfa in front of it? Now I call that habitat creation, as the reason I have no deer is I have no food or cover. Is it "not hunting" when you stake out a recently harvested corn field because you know the deer will use it for a few days as an easy food source before going back to whatever they can find in the woods? All a corn field is is a big food plot.

I'm not saying I'm for baiting, but I am saying it's a real, real fuzzy line and you need to look at the whole picture. Different geography has a big, big effect on how game can be hunted.

Perhaps in some areas of the country every single landowner has taken up the commercialized baiting and food plot craze, but in the three states I've regularly hunted it's pretty rare. Too many crops for deer to care about food plots until nearly December.

The vast majority of folks don't have the luxury of hunting alone on 2000 acres. Some of us are on 1500 acres, with 15 other hunters, which places pretty severe restrictions on how we can hunt.


Why don't the deer have a choice of when he feeds, how he approaches, where he enters, etc., when it's a "feeder"? I've seen deer enter my "feeder area" from every direction, usually very cautiously. As far as the "when"... deer typically move in the mornings and evenings, whether there are feeders or not. That's why feeders are generally set to go off at times that coincide with their normal movements. And, the corn isn't typically all eaten each day, so, there's plenty left laying about after hours, giving the bucks an opportunity for nocturnal feeding, if that's what they prefer.

I hear what you're saying 100%..however you're far from it...I live at the end of a subdivision, I have 2 wooded acres to work with...about 1000 behind me which is not hunted by myself or anyone else due to its "historical" designation, do I spend the months prior to season opening sitting in the stand, watching the patterns like anyone else? Sure I do, do I try to get them in a pattern so they will more in my area? Sure I do...
Will I trespass to get that huge buck even if I know I won't be caught?No I won't....therefore it makes sense to do what I can with what I have....

Hunt how you want, if it's legal and you are repectful of the animal and others it's all good. I have hunted over bait but I get my best deer without it.

I see your point 100% RR. But how about this scenario... What if there's a large piece of property, like the 2,000 acres you hunt, that only has 5 oak trees and they're all together. Would it be wrong of a hunter to have 4 stands in that area and hunt there exclusively when the acorns are dropping? No matter which way the deer come from they'll be within range and there's only one reason the deer are coming to that spot. Granted, it's not a man-made food plot but it's still accomplishing the same thing. Or should the hunter just bypass that area all together because he knows the deer will be there and there's no challenge in it?

Does this sound like an argument that woul be had in our government???? lol:s6:

course, one might well argue that any artificial enhancement to the land or the hunter ain't really hunting.

me, i take my glasses off, wear clothes made of woven grass, walk barefeoot, and try to bash 'em over the head with a rock...

boysda, thats funny. I usually just wear a loin cloth and paint my body with green paint. The rock is my choice of weapon, as well.

So, did we get everything resolved with this topic yet? LOL! There will always be division of opinion when it comes to matters of different hunting preferences.

Try not to take it to heart and be all serious just because another hunter hunts in a way you object to. Just be happy he/she has that right and let them hunt peaceably. For me it's easier said than done, but I do it, but it's hard!

iSnipe

"Artificial" enhancement of the land?? RR, not sure you've been to the midwest lately but NOTHING here is natural. 100% of the land we hunt on is in an "unnatural" state, dictated by the economic whims of modern agriculture. What is the difference between an alfalfa filter strip planted as part of agricultural practices, and the same size alfalfa strip planted for the purposes of being convenient for hunting?

RR, from a hunter's perspective you live a VERY privileged life. Most people dream of hunting a property like you have, but it is a reality for scant few. There is not a single property of that size in my whole county except for the airport. So it is a little irrelevant to use it as an example here. You are in a different world -- you have many bucks whose entire home range is on your property. You can pick where and when you will go after them. Conversely, most of us have bucks who traverse numerous properties and, when they cross the line, they are off-limits. So we must do what we can to maximize our opportunity to take them on the land we have access to -- including trying to create feeding areas on the property to retain them there long enough to MAYBE get a shot.

Is it a competition of sorts? Perhaps, but it's all we have access to. I don't feel too sorry for you that you have to encounter the competition most of us have every time we go afield on just the fringes of your hunting property. I don't feel like less of a hunter because I don't have the convenience of 2000 acres. If anything, I have to be MORE creative to get a chance at a big buck because there are other hunters, on other properties, that are educating him and spooking him. I may do everything right then some other idiot changes the deer's patterns and I never see him again. Rather than just understanding a deer's patterns and getting in the right spot, I may need to CHANGE his patterns or draw him across a property line for a shot.

While I have seen food plots be relatively successful on all types of deer, true baiting doesn't have much success around here. There are simply too many food sources during the season for a single pile of corn to do anything.

MTA: If you're insinuating that "artificial improvements" make it not hunting, perhaps we should do away with Pheasants Forever, Ducks Unlimited, and The Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation?

I would agree with you that hunting NF lands is harder, I have done so myself backpacking far back into the Bob Marshall Wilderness the past two years with good success on hunts that most people could not even hike far enough in to get to where the tags were valid. However I have seen plenty of people lacking hunting skills doing so regardless of food source, that's really another issue though I do see how you could link the two.

But we aren't all hunting the NF lands of Virginia. Most of us are hunting the relatively developed or agricultural lands around our homes. So the methods and issues are different. I know you (and I) would have no issue with calling a skilled shooter who can make a 800 yd shot a hunter. So that 900 yd hunter sitting in the middle of a square mile, 680 acres, of alfalfa could kill any buck entering that field from any route and direction. They have essentially used shooting skills to eliminate the need for hunting skills, to determine where the deer will enter the field and position themselves close enough for a shot because they can cover the whole thing with their 338 Edge or whatever. Yet if a guy plants 5 acres of alfalfa, scouts the plot and identifies the best trail in for a buck and puts himself in position for a 20-yd kill he's less of a hunter?? That is the inherent disconnect in the logic I'm trying to point out.

As this most recent post of yours seems to elude to, I think what you're getting at is more a discomfort with the overall degradation of real hunting skills more than simply the food plot issue. I will agree with you on the degradation of skills issue, but disagree of the food plot issue and suggest instead that it's a much more complicated issue going back to more factors and it's an over-simplification and unfair stereotype against people planting food plots to say that they're only doing it to make up for a lack of hunting skills.

I don't care how skilled hunting you are, you are welcome to come hunt my 15 acres any time. And I'll bet you a steak dinner you'll never shoot a deer because until I get the property more suitable for them they have no reason to set foot here -- 15 acres of flat, open fescue grass with no food or water. If I'm ever to hunt deer on my land I need to modify it. Nothing to do with hunting skills, I shoot my share of nice bucks....on land that has nice bucks. You can't shoot deer that aren't there and unless you have access to large tracts like you do or NF lands simply changing hunting spots is not an option for most people.

I wheel my chair down to the blind and I sit and watch the deer moving, I watch the squirrels, the birds, the foxes as well. I have put down maybe 2 bags of corn on the ground since spring, I don't make a huge bait pile to hunt over, I have scattered just enough on the ground to allow them to know if they come in the area, there is a good chance of a treat, not a feast, but enough to keep them coming back.
I don't need to worry about how I am going to act in archery season since givin my situation, a bow is not in the cards. I have rifle season to deal with and that's it..I make the best of it...not everyone has the ability to walk and stalk, not everyone for that matter even has the ability to walk, so lets keep that in mind when we make our snide comments about how "we" have been in the rodeo before ....cowboy...:violin::rolleye0011:

Uhhh...people put bait on fish hooks. I just thought I'd throw that into the mix.

They drop around that time in SC too... maybe a little later. But people are allowed to hunt in August there so your point wouldn't apply.

I think you're missing the fact that every states deer herds don't act the same as yours. Not everyone here is hunting on the same terrain as you. Every hunter on this site doesn't have the natural resources at their disposal that you do. It would be great if we did because then maybe your points would be somewhat valid to everyone here.... but they're not. I respect your experience and input a lot, as I imagine a lot of other members here do as well. It seems you've definitely spent a whole lot of time in the woods and it sounds like you know what you're doing. But for you to tell everyone they're doing it wrong is a little arrogant on your part. And before you start... I haven't told anyone here they're doing it wrong. Most of the contributors have merely offered their opinions. You just seem to be dictating what you feel is hunting gospel.

I've held back on this for a while but it's been bothering me...now that season is over, and I closed it well..I will end it with this..

Don't feel sorry for my situation....I don't...you don't know the circumstances involved, and it may have been from my own stupidity, it may have been serving my country.

I do everything I can 100%, I came to this board hoping the people here would help me, to give me ideas on how I could be a better hunter. I'm not here to get that "wall hanger", I'm here to fill my freezer to feed my family.
You can said what I do doesn't work,I will argue that....as shown in this thread
http://huntingnet.com/forum/trail-ca...back-yard.html


if it wasn't working would I have that activity in a couple weeks with my couple acres of property bordering 1500 that is unhunted with all the corn/wheat fields and ponds/creeks there are in the back? possibly, but I like to think I was doing something right....


each are entitiled to their opinions on what works, all I know I closed the season with a freezer that will feed my family over the off-season....:party0005:

This is honestly the thousandth time ive seen a baiting thread in these forums

baiting is one thing, it's illegal in my state, you will never catch me perched over a feeder waiting for deer, however, using natural/native food in the area PRE season...is my dispute...

AMEN, to each their own.

Every deer hunter I've ever talked to down hunts or has hunted over a corn pile. Its just the way its done down here. I fail to see the difference from hunting a planted crop and hunting a corn pile... but to each his own.

LMFAO!!!! :happy0157:I just waisted 30 minutes of my life reading this thread. However, it was worth it all to bust a lung laughing at this one. :happy0157:

Those of us who care, need to pay attention to what is happening to the average Joe, that loves to hunt. It's not how someone feels about the way you hunt, it's about what you're doing to the sport. I've always said, if it's legal, then I'm okay with it. I don't feel that way anymore. You have to be able to look at the big picture.

i dont really see a difference i dont hunt for sport i hunt for meat so whatever gets me a deer easyer is what i am going to do but like 7 62 said just really what ever you think is right

I think the only "real hunters" are those who head out with nothing more than a loin cloth over their genitalia and a sharpened stone affixed to a stick with vines or tendons from a previous hunt.

The rest of us are nothing more than "shooters" taking advantage of our superior intellect to harvest a wild animal.

Here's one now!

I just might shoot game over bait if I really needed freezer meat and wasn't having any success.

But I'd never admit to it in public. :)

There is no difference, I do totally agree with you!!!

With age and experience will come wisdom.
One day you will see the difference between an oak tree and a pile of bait corn. Hopefully.

I sure hope so my self, I am learning slowly, It will take a couple of seasons before I can be as my brother calls a red horn lol instead of a green horn.

Good for you.
To plagiarize JFK.... We do this not because it is easy but because it is hard. (that's the idea anyway)

Being successful the easy way doesn't carry the personal satisfaction.
The hunter has no crowd to boo his unethical behavior or cheer his victories. He answers to himself.

Its one thing to disagree with a style of hunting......Its another to ignore facts and change reality.

Its all hunting. Whether its being done the right way is what is opinion and debatable

If the law says it is legal and you have permission to be where you are then it is the right way to hunt.

I also agree with those that have mentioned location. I hunt the Midwest. There are millions of acres of corn and beans along with lots of oak trees. I hunt whichever I think is best at the time. I don't alter the deer movement in anyway (outside of occasionally causing them to not be somewhere they normally would)

I use the hand I am dealt to hunt deer.

I go where the deer are.

That is a matter of opinion.

just because there is a pile of corn does not mean they will show up.

I living in one of those southern states that bait with a tractor trailer of cut crops, I still put corn,peanuts and mineral sites and keep them year round. I rarely hunt them. I never hunt my mineral sites and I only hunt corn piles with a bow and when I do blood flies and does go in the freezer. Once I get some meat I go to natural movement, crops,acorns and other browze. I use the bait to keep the does down thats it.

I've been hunting since I turned of age. I must admit that I've never considered sitting over a bait pile hunting, but then again, it's never been legal in my state. Food plots are legal here, but have never done that either. I just turned 61, and with age comes the realization of to each his own.

Truth is, I guess I never really knew the definition of whitetail hunting until I ventured into the realm of still hunting and got turned onto the Adirondacks back in the '70s. Now, I live for the opportunity to hunt for deer there. To me, imho, it's the purest form of deer hunting: searching for them, tracking them, finding them, and hopefully being in the right place at the right time. It's a lot more work than folks realize. I no longer consider a successful season means one resulting in a kill.

I don't look down on those that sit over bait or food plots, it's just not in me to shoot deer that way. To each his own.