Agreed!

When you condition deer year round with any food source manually created...you aclimate them to human presence and scent. They no longer assoctiate people with danger TO THE EXTENT that a truely WILD deer does. Yes a deer over bait will run at movement BUT a wild deer will run just whiffing human scent left by your boot walking in.

It's a different LEVEL of hunting. From Easy -Shooting a pen raised animal on HIGH FENCE to Moderate Ag Land where farming activity aclimate animals to VERY HARD- Free Ranging PUBLIC Land w/o food plots or improvements aka mountain terrain

The SKILL required at each level is dramatically different.

If it is legal, hunt your skill level. A P&Y harvested animal is a higher achievement level than aSCI harvested animal. Pope and Young is being vilafied for not LETTING EVERYONE IN with a 125 scored animal.

I'm not trying to get into a pissing match with you. I have my beliefs and you have yours. I don't believe in alot of "legal" hunting practices, but as long as it's legal have your way. I won't get on anyones case for not thinking the way I do.

Reply to That's not hunting
 

To the gentleman who asks is piling acorns up in front of your stand baiting, yes it is, in nearly every state where baiting is illegal.

Look, I don't pretend to understand where the regulators come up with their ideas on what is allowed and what is not, but it is very important to hunt by the rules and regulations. To do so otherwise is disrespectful to your fellow hunters.

I personally don't disapprove of those who hunt over food plots. My personal ambition is to study a wild area, learn its advantages and disadvantages, and hunt it appropriately. That's just the way I hunt. With over 40 deer under my belt I can tell you that it is successful.

Wildbill51

Where do I sound like I want a pissing match? Clearly I was just trying to get clarification on your thoughts (which is why I said what I said...for clarification), as they were a bit muddled.

Feeders, food plots and cutover crops! Theres no difference! By the letter of law, natural food sources is different! Some properties don't have ample "natural" food sources, and in some places "crops" are planted with game hunting in mind. Its just bigger than a "food plot!" The same arguments can be had about camo, guns, bows, stands, calls and well, the list can go on forever!
Some folks just have to pump up their egos by putting others down! I say hunt up to the legal limits of your area and don't give a flying flip about what others think! After all, its just their opinion and opinions are like arse holes! Everyone has one, some just bigger than others!

It may be the same as a food plot but way different than a feeder which can be set to drop at a certain time, and condition the deer to be there at that time.

Hunting= to chase for food or sport. you can chum for fish and it'
s still fishing. Hunting is Hunting if you are over a food plot, bait, or stillhunting it's all hunting so stop the bs :violin:

You all have it just plain wrong. You're not hunting unless you're chasing the deer through knee high prairie grass wearing nothing but a loin cloth and carrying a sharpened stick. All you people out there wearing all your fancy clothes with projectile weapons you didn't make without the use of tools, able to shoot over 10 yards, are ruining hunting for us REAL hunters! :action-smiley-099::hit::sheep:

This whole discussion makes me want to go shoot a deer at 201 yards over bait and under an oak tree. And I'm gonna use a 223 Rem and take a neck shot, too. Just wait until I post pictures to really pi$$ everybody off!

As for bait, if you want to use it, fine. Whatever floats your boat. I'm a cheapskate, so I'd rather just go find an oak tree or a corn field next to a deer trail and take my chances.

Mike

I hunt over or close to Food Plots that I've planted for the Deer,Turkey,Quail and other Wildlife in our area and those food plots are not just for Deer Season but for the Wildlife to survive on throughout the year,I also Hunt in the big timber if I'm hunting for a nice Buck like I have been doing for over 30 years.I have taken the easy route and waited til a deer stepped out into our food plot after sitting in the freezing weather and rain for hours...its still called "Hunting" and I'll continue to do that until our Game Laws change here in Missouri.I take my 2 Daughters out and teach them how to hunt,they can learn some of the easier ways to hunt or they can learn how to hunt for a big Buck by sitting in the woods.I don't always agree with some of the hunting techniques I see on the TV Hunting Shows and in other States but if their Laws allow putting corn out and other grains then thats what the People of that State have decided on.Personally I enjoy being outdoors in the woods and if I get to harvest/shoot an animal then so be it...if I don't I'm happy to be outside enjoying Mother Nature.Some times we put too much value on someone shooting a Big Buck and not much concern on seeing a Young Hunter thrilled to get His or Her first Doe.

I found an Arrowhead on our Farm a few years ago...all I could think of was how hard the Indians had it and they still survived and shot Game with a simple Bow and Arrow and here I am with all this new modern gear and a Compound Bow and I can tell You...its Tough getting a Deer with Archery Equipment!!

It cracks me up the number of people that actually think there is some magically seed you can plant and all of sudden a little plot is just packed with deer! LOL!

To bad real life didnt't look like a Drury video! LOL!

if people really want to get technical-hunting is stalking the game. and sitting or standing is just a wait and shoot! but for me it's all the above as long as they are not fenced in or in a preserve(which i don't do).

After 24 years hunting public land in NEPA. Just look for squirrels and your chances of seeing deer are guaranteed. No squirrels, no acorns, no deer. Hunting isn't that difficult is it.

I saw something on another forum that I thought was pretty good in terms of considering this argument. 'What would a Native American do?'

Do you think he would be opposed to laying down a pile of corn in order to attract a game animal to a location and improve his chances? I tend to doubt that.

Here's what Ted Nugent has to say about it:

http://deeranddeerhunting.com/articl...to-backstraps/

The biggest point for me in this debate is that its much ado about nothing. If it is within the the lawful/legal limits set by the area/region you're hunting in, then what's the issue? Its a philosophical argument when there are real issues and threats to hunter's rights real and present. This is small potatoes. what I don't understand and probably never will is the need to impugn others for their methods that are well within the law.

here is my outlook on it...I don't "bait" as that is illegal...I do however drop a gallon bucket or so of corn on the ground every couple days at the back of my property(before season begins)...I live in a subdivision comprised of several acres lots, the yard/roads are covered with deer at night, so they are already conditioned to human activity. The property that meets up with the back of mine is 1200acres of dense woods, nobody is allowed to hunt and I will not trespass just to get that deer. Judging by my trailcam pics, the deer are certainly coming to the area....were they before?I don't know but I see nothing wrong with having them shift their pattern onto my property. I'm not hunting over bait, but using the food source to pattern them pre-season...and for what it's worth...I'm still deerless this season..so it's not like they sit and wait for the bucket all year...

Ted Nugent is the man on many diffrent topics. I agree with him 100% on everything he says. My only question is when the heck is he gonna run for president? Rock on Uncle Ted!! :party0007:

If it's consistent with the State's game laws, and you're outdoors enjoying your surroundings, and it involves the killing of a game animal with a gun or a bow or other legal weapon, and afterwards you go back to camp to swap stories and lies with your buddies around the campfire, then it's "hunting."

1) Because these methods encourage the growth of big business Hunting ranches and they take over hunting's public personna. High Fence, pen raised hunting operations are shaping the the public's opinion of the modern hunter. I personally DON'T don't want to be associated with certain hunting practices that give hunting a black eye.
2) Big Business is buying/leasing up the land driving UP the cost of leases

3) Because of 1&2 hunting is now a bait and sit sport where hunters are confined to so many sq ft and no free ranging hunting is allowed

Yes its legal.....

So is raising a Buck from a fawn..hand feeding it..penning it until its 2.5 years +..artificially feeding it protein to grow an aberation set of antlers..releasing it for a week...setting up feeding stations so the animal seeks nourishment at the clock setting of the feeder timer..then have a FAT out of shape clueless twit pay 10K to sit in a heated blind with coffee and donuts and like was said..read ear tags with binoculars until he can find one he can afford to shoot..

Its just plain wrong....

I Agree! It's coming to Pay if you want to Play. Anyone with the $$$ can play, all other peasants will have to scrap for yearlings.

When i hunt a food plot,SOMETIMES u see a deer.U dont just watch a food plot and see 20 does and a bunch of small bucks,waiting 4 a monster to come out.Unless your name is Bill Jordan! IMO,watching a food plot IS hunting!Its rare i see deer,so i shoot anything that aint got spots on it!

A friggin' men!!:s6:

I see nothing wrong with hunting food plots. These are ussually acres in size and deer can approach at any angle any time..plus there is no Signal like a feeder spreader that rings a dinner bell.

Just like the rat/mice study where they learn to press a button to get food..deer learn to associate the whirring sound of a spreader with food. If it's year round feeding then the animal ACLIMATES to Human intervention in their environment and if supplemental feeding is greater than the natual food source the deer become DEPENDANT. This REMOVES the instinctual fear factor. You might as well be shooting a cow.

Just a suggestion, the bigger deer know the danger of going into an open field with no cover. If you set your stand back into the woods from the field you'll see where the deer stage before nightfall and get a shot in before dark. Use the wind and heaviest cover next to the field to select the ambush site...you'll get more action and see better deer. Plus, in every case where I tagged a Trophy deer, it Followed other deer watching for danger by some distance..if you shoot the 1st animal..you'll never see Mr. Big. Course..if the lead animal sees you its all over too.

But thats the fun of it all :cool2:

Just my $0.02 but there are a lot of hypocrites and folks with "Holier than thou" attitudes here.

Hunting a foodplot or a feeder is just another advantage that some people employ to better their chances of taking an animal home. An advantage is an advantage. If someone uses a call, scent spray, or a special little device on their weapon of choice, how is that different than the hunter that chooses to use a feeder? It's still an advantage. Is it really your belief that your advantage is better than someone elses??? We're really splitting hair with semantics in this thread.

IMO, we all use advantages to help our chances. Some use foodplots, some use different kind of equipment. It's been said before that the only way you can really point a finger and be taken seriously is if you hunt with a sharpened stick while wearing a loin-cloth. Otherwise, we're all equal.

I guess its banning time? Why is it hypocritical to disavow some tactics? And here comes the name calling "holier than thou"...

I'm out here....

Well, I tend to disagree with Hunting shows giving hunters a black eye. I think it's like any other show in that they portray the "action" rather than the endless prep. Fishing shows are the same way. All show clean-cut people, going out in the field talking about conservation and ethical harvest. How does that give hunting a bad name? It beats the hell out of the image of Hunters as being drunken low-lifes, who shoot out of truck windows in the middle of the night. And before anyone gets all indignant, I have heard that stereotype many times over the years. I used to ride off-road motorcycles before an injury made me stop. A group of riders I know wouldn't ride in the National Forest during deer season due to "Drunks with guns". I think anything that can dispel that image is good for the sport. Ok, now I'm out to see if I can get $10,000.00 so I can sit in that heated blind with coffee and doughnuts! :)

Well,ive already killed a monster buck last year,(13 point),thats why i shoot does small buck or if the monster steps out,i kill it!Now if a doe or small buck walks out,lookin back in d woods i'll wait n c whats behind him!

With Everyone worried about the Land depleting with it being split up and most Farming land having houses and subdivisions put on it and Big Business taking over most of it one of these days....how many of us Hunters have taken a Youth out there hunting that doesn't have a place to hunt and introduce them into Hunting?Instead of arguing about what is the definition of Hunting how about Sharing and having Compassion for each other and the sport of hunting.My Father In-law has let Family and Friends hunt on His property that other wise wouldn't have a chance to hunt else where,on the Land we Lease the Owner has let us take Youths there to hunt and He is more thrilled when a Youth gets a Deer than if he got a Deer himself and we take the Kids out in the Big Woods and on the Food Plots so they have a better chance of getting a Deer.

Go tell a Young Kid that not Hunting...most Kids around here know if your going to kill a Big Buck you have to hunt hard and go where they are in the woods or the thick stuff.In my Opinion...when your teaching a Youth to hunt you don't put pressure on them and your there to teach them the fundamentals of Hunting and how to enjoy being in the outdoors,eventually they will advance with the hunting skills.

I usually don't get into these kind of arguments but I fell like the opinions are one side and I like the comments of several members here that passionate about Hunting.Oh Yeah...Merry Christmas Everyone ;)

It's not hypocritical to disavow some tactics. It is however hypocritical to denounce employing something as an advantage while employing advantages yourself.

Maybe you should look up the definition of hypocrite. Yes, my opinion may be different than yours but that isn't me being hypocritical. Being hypocritical is someone saying something is wrong while they're doing it too.

Huh?......

bowhunting =the way to go.i hate shotgun season.it sucks everybody and there brother becomes a "hunter" .however there is somting to be said for muzzleoader.oh and food plots =not for me (its not legal) and im thankfull its not,it would reck hunting the way its supposed to be,you getting close to your animal.IMO

i cant tell anymore if some of you guys are even serious or if youre just mocking other's posts.

assuming youre serious, whats wrong w/others wanting to hunt? isnt that better than being against hunting?

Food plots and baiting !
 

Merry xmas ! Questioning the way someone hunts or with what you use creates an argument among hunters that the antis just feed upon ! As long as your method of hunting is within the law and a quick kill is what really is important! I have hunted along time and have heard many comments beginning with ... Stump sitters , tree stand hunters, compound bows with sights, cross bows, scoped muzzleloaders, and one that bothers me is a friend in indiana feels that rifles are just not hunting !! I tell him my last 3 shots = 3 dead deer that died almost instantly ... What is wrong with that ? Or hunting over a food plot or baiting an area is that any different than paying a farmer to leave crops in field to manipulate the feeding pattern ? It is a never ending argument that " my way is the right way' as long as the end result is still a dead deer , let it be !

im against shotgun season for myself. not shotgun hunters.im just saying for me bowhunting is the way to go.i like seeing deer ,and after the first week (of shotgun)deer hardly come out until muzzleoader(unless you push,which i dont do).
if i owner 500 acres shotgun season would be great.

Humans have a brain....we use it to outsmart animals that aren't as smart. Now...unless you are hunting with a knife or spear while stalking your prey then you are taking advantage of the deer. Even hunting this way we are smart enough to kill some aniamls. The success will be lower but we are smart enough to kill a deer with nothing more than a knife or spear if we had to.

Anything above this is taking advantage of the animal some how. Camo, scent, calls, tree stands, blinds, food plots, bait, high powered rifles, modern compound bows, xbows, binoculars, rangefinders, scentlock suits, etc.....you get the point. Everyone of us picks the things we want to make hunting easier. Who's to say what's right for everyone? Don't get so smug and think you are somehow a purest for doing it "your way". Enoy your hunt...and let others enjoy theirs and stop worring about who's doing what right.

I don't bait and it is illegal here. I disagree with baiting/food plots in general due to an alteration in habitat designed to lure animals, that is not to say that when I hunt in eastern MT I won't shoot a deer or antelope in a wheat field or I won't pattern elk around their feeding habits. But if baiting/hunting over a food plot is how you do it, I won't look at you as an inferior hunter, but one with different tactics.

Define wilderness please. If you, or granddad, took efforts to reduce the frequency of the natural rate of fire occurrance, predator populations...it ain't true wilderness, according to some.

I've heard some antis extend the actions of native Americans running buffalo over buffalo jumps, as man-made and therefore cheating...cheating because the buffs didn't understand that a cliff meant they'd fall to their death. WTH?

What gets me, is that our ancient ancestors (wherever they lived) were able to prosper with only primitive weapons and techniques...Does it make what hunters do, with modern tools & equipment, any easier? To me, no.

For those antis use the "not needed for food" argument, I ask how much of the food they ate in the previous year they raised or harvested. A few can answer, but many will give you a look of abject horror. "What?! Me in the wild?! Are you crazy?"...I admit it, I'd die in pure wilderness too. At least I know how to make a fire w/o matches..

I'm sitting here wondering, if it's so darned easy to shoot big bucks if you're using feeders or food plots, why I didn't get one this year... I go "hunting" as the guest of a friend who is on a lease in the Hill Country of Texas, north of San Antonio. The only permitted method of hunting on the lease is from blinds w/ feeders. There are generally too many people there to allow for spot and stalk type hunting, as wandering around the woods would mess up others' hunts. I spent four weekends up there this year. But, didn't see a buck big enough/old enough to shoot. Let a number of nice bucks walk, as they didn't meet the lease's management strategy.

I did shoot a doe (a nice old fat one that weighed 120 lbs - where the average taken is only about 100) and a nice little wild pig ( he weighed about 35 lbs - perfect for the bbq grill). So, it appears that the new Remmy 7mm-08 works pretty well. :biggrin:

And, frankly, I don't give a rat's rear if some folks don't consider that to be "hunting" (I suspect those folks would have a tough argument with the Game Warden if they tried to do it without a license :s4:).

I enjoy getting away, the peace, tranquility, solitude. Time to sit in the blind and clear your mind. Spending quality time with my son on his weekend as a guest. Listening to the birds drowning out the constant hum of my tinnitus... A chance to unwind. Seeing a billion stars in the night sky rather than the ten or twelve that you can see on a clear night in Houston. Sitting around the campfire after the evening hunt swapping lies about the big one you let walk. Food with crap in it you'd never think of eating at home, that tastes like manna from heaven at deer camp. I thoroughly enjoy every minute of my time out of the city. If a big buck happens to wander past my stand, well, that's just a bonus. If anybody wants to define that as something other than "hunting", well, then it's likely that you're the elitist snob hunter, and I'd contend you're the problem with hunting. Not me.

There are guys here that hunt with dogs. It's something I'd never consider doing, and many would consider that to be "not hunting," but, if it's legal, I'm not going to argue that folks shouldn't be allowed to do it, so long as they keep their dogs on property where they've got a right to hunt. Some folks here shoot deer at extremely long range, to the dismay of some folks here who consider such long shots unethical and "not hunting." But, it's legal, so I am not going to argue against it if the person doing the shooting has the skill set required to do it.

I just don't see how any individual here can take upon themselves the role of Great and Exalted Emperor of all Hunters and gets to say "I don't like that, so it's not hunting." State game authorities define it. Within those parameters, the individuals hunting a particular area have to further refine the definition in order to provide for safe hunting opportunities for the people on that tract. If you don't like the fact that I "hunt" over a feeder, well... Get over yourself.

Holy cow, this thread is still running with people getting thier feelings hurt?

Ok, I can live with that.

I've never hunted over a food plot or agriculture crop in my life, but if/when I do, then I'll be "shooting". LOL!

He can call it whatever he wants. Big deal. :rolleye0011:

iSnipe

I've spent a LOT of days over the food plot seeing nothing.
To some:
hunting over a plot isn't hunting, it's shooting
using a scope isn't hunting, it's sniping. Iron sights only
crossbowhunter - hunting with a rifle isn't hunting, it's shooting
compound hunter - hunting with a crossbow isn't ethical
longbow - compounds don't give game a chance

Get where this is going??? The only true way is with a CLUB!