Marlin 450

I will bet that if you take a poll on hunters that kill Mature ( 3 1/2 to 5 1/2 year old) deer, the majority would go to traditional tactics and without the use of scents and calls. I know that here in Maine, calls and scents do work, but I can count one hand the amount of times I have heard someone tell me they killed thier Big Buck while using a call or scent. I also would be willing to bet that anyone in this forum that knows people or is a person that regularly kills mature bucks, the top answer would be without the use of them.
Yes, scents and calls do work, but I am sold on the fact that they are not the answer if you want to cosistantly kill Mature Deer!!
Go ahead and blow your calls and use your scents, I am sure that the companys that make them are laughing all the way to the bank while us traditional hunters are piling up the big boys without them!!

FlDeerman

Marlin,a closed mind is a terrible thing to waste.I hope I never stop learning and I' ve hunted almost as long as you' ve been alive.Wait till I tell you about smoke sticks!!

woodseye

Well you can build a house without a hammer its just a little harder thats all.I can tell by Marlins posts that hes pretty much closed his mind to these tools but to the rest of you maybe I can make some suggestions." The trouble with scents and calls" ,I would reply theres NO trouble with scents and calls only in choosing the RIGHT ones and USING them properly.I have found that those the most vocal about scents and calls not working have merely had poor success with them theirselves and among their group.When used with " scents" (pun) they work as intended and can help tilt the odds of a mature buck in your favor.Rattling - I use REAL heavy beamed deer horns with the brow tines removed for comfort and sealed well to prevent dampness from penetrating and giving them that " dead" sound.I rattle ONCE real hard for about 45 seconds and then put them away,if you keep rattling on and off the bucks can pinpoint your location better and most bucks don' t fight for a while and then stop only to fight again in a few minutes.The bucks will come in on high alert and 90% of the time if mature will CIRCLE your position to scent check from downwind to identify the bucks fighting.Backing up to a river,steep embackment,open field,flowage,or something to impede or prevent the buck from getting downwind will greatly raise your success rate.Positioning a shooter 100yds down wind is also an excellant way to captilize on this downwind movement of the buck.Scent-loc,no-scent products(soap,sprays,deoderants,cover scents)will help as well as staying 15 feet or higher in a tree stand,it will make it harder for a buck to scent you or see movement as you prepare for a shot.Scents - I have found only one scent brand that works all the time and does not spook mature bucks with its use,James Valley scents made in gel form from a trapper in the Dakotas with a COMBINATION of glands,musks,and urine used according to his rather detailed and specific instructions.I believe straight urine has too short of a shelf life and breaks down to ammonia too quickly.Keep the scent in a GLASS container and except when you are starting a mock scrape or freshening a real one take the scent into your area to hunt and seal up and take it out with you.The bucks get used to a scent left out on the ground and quickly loose any interest in it,once the bucks start to hit a doctored scrape stop going near it and let them do the scenting.Wall Hanger or Full Rut seems to be his best.Using scent NEAR not in bedding areas will work the best and fooling with scrapes out near the edge of fields where the bucks stage at night before feeding is usually not very productive.All techniques will work far better if employed close to doe bedding areas and thick buck travel routes.Calls - I use a simple grunt call with NO buttons or tone changers just a good low grunt,I picked it out of about a half dozen grunts and have used it for years.3-6 low tending grunts and thats all for an hour or so,overcalling is far worse than undercalling.Grunts used before or right after rattling also can add to effectiveness.They will come in equally alert as with rattling and will often attempt to circle downwind be forewarned.Now my favorite and most successful calling technique,estrous doe bleats with a bleat can.Three bleats and than quiet for a 1/2 hour or more,the bucks come in more relaxed and will often come straight in with less circling.This technique can be DEADLY close to bedding areas at mid day!With any calling technique it can take a mature buck up to an hour or more to respond,thats how they got to be mature,be patient.All of these techniques can work by themselves or when used in combination with each other,they don' t work everytime and nothing does with mature bucks.They are tools that all help to reach your goal of seeing and shooting a mature shooter buck for your given hunting area.Less pressured areas the bucks are exposed to less man produced scents and calling and will respond better to these tricks in shooting light.I have hunted in Maine for 39 years and last fall called in four bucks three of which were mature cagey public land bucks of which my son and I shot two.I don' t view calls and scents as replacements for shooting or hunting skills and I don' t rely on them completely without scouting and setting up well in advance(Aug)with my stands and always being in funnels and near to bedding areas where big bucks are moving,you have to be where they are to get their attention.Hope some of these tips help,I' ve been a long time learning some of them.Don' t give up on scents till you try James Valley(hes a trapper and used to fooling animals with excellant noses)and use your calls sparingly,they work better when not overused.Rattling is a discourging method as it will lure in many bucks you' ll never see that circle and then often blow and let every buck around know theres danger, but try the backdrops suggested and keep experimenting!Good Hunting!

woods

Ruger1

woodseye;

Lots of info in that post, Good job!!

Dave

FlDeerman

Woodseye great post,but one small disagreement.To me the best call I use all season long is the doe grunt(why I like " true talker" ).After all,all deer have a mother and the best way to calm them down is the doe grunt.Who wouldn' t belive dear Ol' Mom.
During the rut you are right on the money!!Do I hear call makers laughing?

woodseye

FlDeerman,I agree with your statement " all season long" for the doe grunt.I hunt the month of November up here and thats late pre-rut and full-rut,at this time I want to draw a buck thats already looking for an estrous doe and the estrous bleat can fills the bill perfectly with the sounds of a doe looking for Male company.We can only shoot one deer up here, so I am focused on bucks and I don' t find a doe contact grunt to be as effective as the estrous bleat for drawing out wary bucks right in the peak rut period.If I bowhunted the month earlier I would probably add a doe grunt to my tools but for when I hunt(rut) and what I want to shoot(mature buck) the bleat can and some tending grunts are the sounds I want to make.Good Point though as early season requires different calls and scents to be realistic and have success attracting deer.


woods

Marlin 450

Woodseye, I am not closed minded, I am just trying to make the point that scents and calls only give the deer the edge as to where you are. You know as well as I do that they do not need an edge any sharper than they have already.
How many times can you count on one hand, the amount of times last season that a mature buck came within a kill shots distance from you personally (while calling)?
Now, how many times have you had deer skirt around you while calling?
How about not showing at all?
Most important, how many did you kill last season that were in the 3 1/2 to 5 year old range??

woodseye

Yeah I believe you have made up your mind on calls and scents and started your post to make that point.I agree to disagree with your opinions and use all hunting tools to take my bucks up here and they all work depending on the particular circumstances.To answer your questions - I called two mature bucks and one spike in last year within shooting range in full sight.I shot a 196# 8 pointer myself and my boy shot a 10 pointer.I had one other buck that I' m aware of that stopped right before he came into view and caught our scent when the wind shifted.We shot two deer that were 3 1 /2 or older last year.Yes of course a call lets the buck know something is in the area but when they come in to check it out if you are using scent control and stand location to your best advantage you have a definite edge that comes from scouting and studying the buck movements in your area.I see and shoot more mature bucks by using calls and scents than when I used to simply hunt in a non aggressive manner sitting or stillhunting.You have your opinion and I have mine,but I get results and would never change my hunting techniques from what works so well,if it ain' t broke don' t fix it!

woods

Marlin 450

Woodseye, if you are getting that kind of results in Maine, go with the flow. I hunt Central Maine mostly and know very few people that regularly kill mature bucks with calls and scents. I gave artificial lures up after I realized that tracking deer produced much better results. Maybe I just plain suck at using scents and calls, but you are one of very few people I have talked to from Maine that claim that they have an edge with them. Either you are full of it or you are going to be the next Jay Gregory, either way, good luck this season!!

LittleRhody

Marlin 450

Where about in central maine do you hunt? I also hunt in central maine, I was just wondering if you were close to where i am. thanks