I say its fine under circumstances. If he is a good one and is standin in tall weeds or something and you know you are a good marksman and can easily kill him no sweat, go ahead. But if your new or have a big gun and a little flinchy to the reciol, I wouldn't. Also I don't go around amin' at thier head for evey deer It take. I belive that a neck shot is just fine too, because its not that hard to hit and its lights out on impact basicly.

Worked up? Im not worked up at all about this. I only open it to see how escalated the arguing before the moderators take over and lock this up.

Or I just don't like watching hunters B**tch at each other when we do do enough fighting against the anit-hunters. All these posts do is take people who have been on here for just a few months and put them against each other.

Stay on here a few months and don't worry, you'll get sick of some of the BS that goes on here. Most of the Verterans on here will agree with me.

Im always the one that doesn't let things get out of hand and agree to disagree, not try and be an internet tough guy. Really, one month and your already talking trash? Have some respect for the site.....

not impressed, i still wouldnt b trying head shots at those distances way to many variables,sorry

why? theres still milk drippin off that yearlings mouth.Why?

hey man if your a confident enough marksman i see no problem with a head shot. i cant think of a quicker kill

u make me laugh champ with your spelling corrections anyways i happen to know the jarhead zrex is talking about & he tends to miss & wound more animals than anybody i know as well i suppose u to believe in aim small miss small huh, or always hunt with the lowest power the scope has to offer maybe thats the problem.LOL

I have frequently head shot a doe. (appropriate target situation, of course). Yes, it may be messy, but it wastes zero meat and drops them on the spot. Occaissionaly (if I have the tags) I may be able to get two of them. There are no ethics involved- dead is dead.Esthetics.. another story.

fastetti,

I know your kind. You say you don't get worked up, but you do because you want us all to high five, give back slaps and sing Kum Bay Ya and get along and when you don't see that, have to jump in as if people are going to listen to you. LOL! As for being here, I've visited often and knew people before I signed up. I have my own forum of a few thousand, so I know the game and have seen whiners many a day. You're still b******g! Like I said before...

If you don't like these kind of posts, don't read them! LOL!

iSnipe

Yes Snippy, you got it. Kumbay Ya. Your too funny. I actually laughed at that. I just stopped being confrontational in Grad school while working at bars in Chicago. Im 6'8" and always dealt with guys who thought they were the toughest in the world when I ran security. Don't know why the little guys want to prove stuff with the big guys. Not saying this is you, just what I always dealt with. I just learned when I got my masters (and grew up) the reprocutions of dealing with people physically. No matter what happens, no one wins. I found out that I usually had a lot more to loose than they did, which is why I got out of bouncing even though I had fun doing it. I do miss it sometimes, kind of like deer hunting...you never know whats going to happen.

I guess I translated not getting worked up over into my work. I just hit 30 and felt its time to leave the internet bashing behind as well. We just go over this topic all the time and it never goes anywhere.

Isnipe, You have posted some good stuff. I remember your name from some previous posts. Now that people have started bashing each other though, seems like this topic has run its course.

Exactly my point! Hence my very reason for telling you to NOT read these kinds of posts! LOL! Topics like these hit every hunting forum, deer, bear, moose,coyote, elk, etc,... People are going to have their opinions and they almost never change them. In my book if people are tearing at each other... and to have someone jump in and say "Can't we all get along?"...LOL!... that's like jumpin' in with them! Don't roll in the mud with the pigs. They like the mud. LOL! I hear what you're saying and don't like the bickering either, but it doesn't get to me nor do I think these guys would be like that face to face. I think they'd be more inclined to have a few barley pops and talk what's in common instead.

iSnipe

I think head and neck shots are ok. They kill quickly and humanely. I have taken many deer with this shots, long and short.

Never used buck shot but have friends in Pa who swear by it.

The post about having to put down your dog was a great analogy.

Spudrow from Mo

[quote=fingerz42;3484314] The deer will NOT drop everytime due to shock.


I'm a neck-shooter. Not a head shooter. But I will say that you are wrong. Every deer that I have neck shot drops DEAD in their tracks and no, they did not all break the spine. The SHOCK on the neck and all of its veins and arteries causes an instant brain anurism...instant death...ethical. How is it ethical the let a deer run around bleeding for 20 yards, 40 yards...100-200 yards?

I aim for the head when i'm useing buckshot.

So, let me get this straight...

From what I read that YOU said above, it's NOT ethical to shoot a deer in the heart/lung area because it's going to run some?

iSnipe

Sounds like (rosco1099) is tired of wearing his sisters underwear and wants to voice his own opinion, for what its worth. 10-4:poke:

With that kind of thinking, why would you use a bow? considering that a bow is no where near the accuracy of a rifle..

yes, bullets, or projectiles kill by both shock and hemmeraging, (bledding out) arrows mainly kill by hemmeraging. It all come down to what is ethical to the individual.

No, they all kill by hemoraging, bullet knife or arrow, if you dont do damage to major blood vessels they will not die quickly.
A bullet to the ass of a deer, no matter how much shock it applies, it will not kill, unless of course you hit what ? the femoral arterie.

You may want to re-think your statement!
My bow is every bit as accurate as any of my rifles the differance being is my rifles effective range is greater than my bow! Period! :deer:

Here we go again with junk science... KE doesn't kill? BS! Kinetic energy is the energy of motion. Everything with mass that moves had KE. If KE has nothing to do with the ability of a projectile to kill, then shouldn't a bullet in the hand be lethal? But we all know that it isn't. In order to make a bullet lethal, we have to make it go a certain speed. When we accelerate the bullet, we are imparting KE to the bullet. Then, when the bullet hits the target, that stored KE is used to punch a hole in the target and, if applicable to bullet design, make the bullet expand or disintegrate. How MUCH KE, and therefore how much mass and/or velocity, is required to accomplish the task of creating a sufficient sized hole depends on a number of factors, but ultimately the KE is what allows the bullet to do its work. So, regardless of the projectile type, be it a 150gr bullet at 3000 fps (2,997 ft-lbs), a 400 grain arrow at 275 fps (75.5 ft-lbs), or a 40,000 lb bus at 35 mph (1,638,000 fl-lbs), it's still the KE that kills you. Only the APPLICATION of KE differs.

Mike

How much money you want to wager that my rifle can shoot better groups than your bow? :devil: You bring your best bow, and I'll bring my best rifle, and we'll shoot for pink slips! :cool2: :p

Mike

Horse Hockey! Anyone who wanted input about ethics, head shots, small calibers or baiting could look at the thousands of debates that are already archived! Just admit it, you just wanted to stir the pot!
I should have never opened up this thread! To argue with an idiot, you have to go down to their level! Anyone who thinks that those that don't take head shots is because they "can't" is just full of themselves!

Are you really sure you want to make that wager???? This ain't my first year with a bow. Besides your best rifles effective range maybe say 300 - 350 yards if your any good. My bows effective range is 50 yards and thats a 2" group on a deer size target from a tree stand. Can your rifle shoot a 2" group at 350 yards off hand. I thought not!:woot:

Lets be serious, you know what I mean!

LET THE GAMES BEGIN:happy0157:

Too bad you don't live a little closer, I sure could use a nice bow...

2" groups at 50 yards = 4 MOA. My Savage 30-06 shoots 1.25 MOA consistently with the cheap Winchester Power Points. My 257 Wby... the AVERAGE group is right at 0.7 MOA with handloads. These are raw numbers based on benchrest load testing. If you want to shoot "field conditions," I NEVER shoot offhand at an animal. Never have, and likely never will. You can shoot your bow from your stand, or however else you like to shoot in the field, and I will do the same, which is kneeling with the forearm supported by a fixed object. You can shoot at 50 yards or whateve range you're comfortable with, and I would shoot at 200 (which is the farthest I'm able to practice at, since that is the length of the longest rifle range in my area), or 4 times the distance you choose to shoot at, whichever is less. If the best you can do at 50 yards is 2", or 4 MOA, then all I need is to keep them all inside an 8" circle at 200 and I own your bow. Easy money! If you ever pass through eastern Iowa with your bow, send me an email, and I'll be happy to win that bow from you! :)

Mike

i figured it would be a debate just didnt figure most people would be adults about it and bash the s@#t out of others along the way,

I have my opionions and you all have yours. btw i havent argued with anyone and havent told anyone they dont take headshots because they cant so if you would not quote my post and then make statements like that it would be great iveseen what this thread has turned into and would just delete it if i could its absolutely not the response i expexted

Failed Head Shot
 

Never had to take a head shot at a deer, dad had to on a cow elk. at 220 yds 2 inches low, shattered jaw I had to chase for 7 1/2 hours while it choked on its own blood. Meanwhile mine was on the ground 10 yds from where the bullet hit. Elk are more durable but that said mine did not taste near as gamey as his. No one can sit here and say they will put every shot in a 1 1/2 grouping every time. Not saying I wouldn't just realize the outcome if it doesn't work and be willing to accept outcome. Pops and I had a little talk following that incident, so we'll see what he does next time.

DRT.

iSnipe

I seen that happen to me, my son shot a spike with the exact same shot, just under the spine, this one however did not die, we had to shoot it again.
Theres definately something going on on impact but its not energy or shock, its more like pressure, hydraulic pressure more so.
shock is the wave ahead of a bullet that passes the materials sound barrier, air sound barrier is 1125 fps and is easily acheived by a bullet, but not in the body. The body which is close to water has a sound barrier of 4900 fps, a bullet will never cause a shock wave in the body. Its more like hydraulic pressure. And does cause some damage, more temporary than permanent but it does do damage.
KE has to be converted to see it real affects. and when converted to say watts you'll see its not enough to boil a cup of water.
Its not the KE thats killing its the work done by it. IE a bullet expanding and tearing tissue or the pressure it creates.

[quote=rosco1099;3486934][quote=fingerz42;3484314] The deer will NOT drop everytime due to shock.


I'm a neck-shooter. Not a head shooter. But I will say that you are wrong. Every deer that I have neck shot drops DEAD in their tracks and no, they did not all break the spine. The SHOCK on the neck and all of its veins and arteries causes an instant brain anurism...instant death...ethical. How is it ethical the let a deer run around bleeding for 20 yards, 40 yards...100-200 yards?[/quote]

Rosco 1099,
Uh. You're kidding right? Given this statement then bow hunting is unethical. Is that your belief? This is exactly what happens just about every time with a bow.
Also. A heart lung shot with a rifle is unethical in your estimation? Because more often than not, they will run.

shoot em in the head or neck. you either hit em or miss em no wounded deer. no meat wasted either.

i'll admit i'm new here, but reading some of the "expert opinion" on this thread is hilarious. I cannot believe people are actually saying that it is impossible to wound a deer with a head or neck shot! i can't be the only person that's seen a moving jawless deer. makes me think a lot of people on here have never shot a deer, head, neck, or otherwise!

Not always so. Ever seen a deer with its bottom jaw blown off? I have. She was getting pretty thin too.
I'm not saying it's right or wrong to shoot a deer in the head, but i am saying anyone can miss and wound a deer no matter where you were aiming.

No pooly. It's just that no one has ever missed the exact spot they were aiming for. :s4:

How is this a hit or miss shot?? You could blow their bottom jaw off. I have seen that before.:mad: There could be plenty of error in a head or neck shot.

I didn't bother reading all of these posts but I would take a head shot if I had it. Personally I don't hunt with a bow because I think letting a deer bleed to death is unethical.

This may very well be the post of the month.

Aw Crap! is that a requirement to join this forum? if so i'm out :busted:

x 2 on that! Wow. Talk about an opinion. That's one for sure.

iSnipe

You guys don't have to believe this if you don't want to but I have even taken a neck shot with my bow. ONE TIME! I took it only because I had hit the deer where you are suppose too and the deer was suffering lying on the ground and he was crippled so I didn't have another shot at the vitals. I approached the deer after the first shot and I was only 10 yards from it and needed to finish what I had started and do it quickly. So in the heat on the moment I decided that shooting him in the neck was my only alturnitive so I did. He died almost instantly within 10 seconds. Now would I have taken this shot with a bow under different circumstances at a further distance, I believe I would but no further than 30 yards. Have I ever taken one before, NO! Why? because it's just not the first thing I think of when taking a shot with a bow.

Now with a rifle I have taken them many of times and so far they have put the animal down and they were dead before they hit the ground. Would I take one off hand? Not on your life! Keep in mind that I shoot every week in a Schuetzen league at my gun club. For those of you that don't know what that is, thats 200 yards off hand with a 22 LR and a centerfire SS 25-06, lead only.

Only with a firm rest would I even consider it ( I hunt with shooting sticks) and I will only do it if it is at 100 yards or less and if the animal is ready to high jack it out of there and it's the only shot I have because of obstructions in the way of the vitals. I like the fact that there is less loss of meat with a neck shot and from what I have experienced they exspire a lot faster than with a vital area shot. Though I have had some die pretty quick when hit in the vitals, usually within 30 seconds but some have taken longer. I hate that!

I can't believe you missed it in the by-laws
It's right under " all guns must shoot under 1/4 MOA" and right above " All bows must shoot over 320FPS"

Geez man. I know youre new but let's get up to speed here will ya!!!:)