what is unethical deer hunting?
 

This topic came up from another thread and I thought it would be interesting to see what everyone thought. Some people will say baiting is non ethical, some would say deer hunting with dogs, what is your opinion?

RE: what is ethical deer hunting?
 

My first thought was that any type of hunting that is legal is what I would consider ethical, even though there are types of hunting that I don' t think are " sporting" and I wouldn' t do personally. But then I thought about " high-fence" hunting. There is a certain size that I would say makes for a fair hunt, but I guess it does make a huge difference on what type of terrain and such. But in general, I think these " hunts" are unethical. Anytime I see an advertisment that says guarenteed 6x6 bull elk I want to puke

RE: what is ethical deer hunting?
 

I guess ethics vary from person to person. I consider, where legal, baiting to be accebtable although ive never done it.But some people throw a fit about it. I do agree that " pen hunting" is unethical but some people seem to have no problem with doing it. It would take me a long time to list all the things i think are ethical and unethical and not everyone would agree with me. If its legal and you have no problem with it, do it.

RE: what is unethical deer hunting?
 

The definition of ethical is: Conforming to accepted and especially professional standards of conduct.

So reading the definition of ethical I would conclude that if it is legal then it is ethical because it is an accepted standard of conduct. However since I do not choose to accept it then I guess I would consider it unethical from a personal standpoint.

I have hunted with dogs and over bait when I was younger because I had to hunt the way the person that was taking me did. I certainly do not feel that it is sporting as you say. Really, how hard is it to sit over a bait pile and wait for the animal to come out? Not very. I feel the same about " food plots." It' s as close to " canned hunting" as you can get with out the fence. Or how hard is it to surround a plot of land and wait for a group of hounds to run the deer to the standers? Not very. We wasted more time planning the next drive and rounding up dogs then we did hunting the deer. In my own honest opinion I didn' t enjoy hunting much this way and do not consider it actually " hunting" in my book. I would rather hunt public land where I may or may not shoot an animal then just sit and wait for the animal to feed or get chased out to me by dogs.

But I am not going to condem any one for doing so if that is how they want to hunt. As long as it is legal. Every one has a choice in how they want to hunt, I choose not to hunt this way.

RE: what is unethical deer hunting?
 

If it is legal then that means the majority believe it to be ethical. I personally believe as long as the person uses what they catch(shoot) then they are in the right. What I can' t stand are these pukes that go around shooting animals taking the head and leaving the rest.

RE: what is unethical deer hunting?
 

Hunting elk with a spotlight from a helicopter using a lazer sighted rifle in Yellowstone would be unethical. LOL

Canned hunts are not hunts at all and are not sporting or fair chase. Not sure how you could outlaw them without risking real hunting. It would be like outlawing slaughtering your own cattle, which is exactly what canned hunting is. Also, kind of like outlawing " assualt rifles" which are in fact no different than semiautomatic hunting rifles with a different stock.

RE: what is unethical deer hunting?
 

I hate to use " legal" and " ethical" in the same sentence. Ethics come from a much deeper personal respect for what’s right and what’s wrong.

It is legal to take 150 yd shots, its legal to purposely gut shoot a deer, shoot an untuned bow with min ke. and 2-1/2 inch expandables, not practice, and not care. etc.

If we ONLY use the law as a guideline we will fall short in character every time.

Use the law as a minimum starting point. All the important decisions come from within.

RE: what is unethical deer hunting?
 

AMEN RACK!!!!!!

RE: what is unethical deer hunting?
 

Rack-attack,

Well said! You saved me a bunch of typing...again.

RE: what is unethical deer hunting?
 

Great post Rack! But I guess I was going more after styles of hunting with this thread.

RE: what is unethical deer hunting?
 

Well put Rack

RE: what is unethical deer hunting?
 

Well put.

RE: what is unethical deer hunting?
 

Rack-attack well said, when I said legal I did mean as an overall starting point.

As far as canned hunts goes, this as nothing to do with ethical. I' m not saying I' m for canned hunts what I' m saying is you can find just as many idiots in the woods as you can in the fence. How about all those headless deer found this pass season. Or how about the guys in PA that left deer, because when they finally got over to them they found out they didn' t meet PA antler restrictions. It proves that sometimes the laws can cause unethical hunting.

Let me ask this is killing an animal OK just because we as humans say there are to many in a certain area? Is it OK for us to play God and use fertility drugs and other types of things to adjust populations of animals?

RE: what is unethical deer hunting?
 

When the subject of ethics comes up rules set by various game and fish commissions probably covers most of the points of ethics. Different methods of hunting that are usually set early in hunters lives and those methods usually set their ideas of ethical hunting. One of the earliest methods of deer hunting I encountered was dog hunting (some 40 years ago). My cousin had some coon dogs we hunted with and when the deer population started growing in our area some of the dogs would jump a deer and mess up the coon hunting. Some of them got knocked in the head, but then we started using the deer runners for deer dogs and it was just a bunch of neighbors and family members having a good time. Many of the members of this board would consider it unethical to deer hunt with dogs, but it was legal and was the way I was brought up. I always figured people bird hunt with dogs, hog hunt with dogs, coon hunt with dogs, etc, and that was alright. Same goes for baiting, food plots and use of other lures and other legal methods of hunting. If they are legal where you hunt and you have no personal problems with it, then go for it.

RE: what is unethical deer hunting?
 

Rack, good post. Within the law and done the right way!!!!!

RE: what is unethical deer hunting?
 

I gotta hand it to you Rack. That was an excellent post.

RE: what is unethical deer hunting?
 

I remember reading a quote somewhere that said " ethics are what you do when nobody is watching" [:-] I like that one!

RE: what is unethical deer hunting?
 

In my opinion (ethical) goes with humane in a sense. It is my and every hunters responsibility to ensure that we do every thing with in our power to harvest game humanely.

This meaning accurate and calculated shot placements regardless of what kind of device we use.

The animal needs not suffer but to be taken (shot) in the most educated location to bring a clean and swift death.

Some say whats the point when hunting the purpose is simply to kill them and how this is done is not relevent.

To the non-ethical hunter this phrase stands, to a ethical hunter this phrase is not an option!

I have all to many time seen other hunters and even members of my hunting club take deer with no resect to the deer or thier surroundings what so ever.

Even to the point to where deer have been brought to the camp still alive (barley) and clearly suffering. This is unethical and unacceptible.[:@]

What is ethical, a clean swift kill, and kill that best suites the environment in which you are hunting. This meaning, not harvesting young bucks, fawns or out of season game.

Hunting ethics is a must, all responsible hunters need to practive ethical hunting.

RE: what is unethical deer hunting?
 

Here is a diffrent view point.

The type of hunter you are, may make it harder to remain legal and " ethical" .

Let me explain that statement, as it sure needs some explaining.

Hunters hunt for many diffrent reasons and combinations of reasons. If hunting for you is recreation, a pastime, a sport, a relaxing get away for your usual life, then you are not really too concerned if you kill something or not. You have a good time and obay the laws and hunt " ethically" and in a " sporting" manner.

If you were in a survival situation where you had to kill an animal to eat, the law and ethics would go out the window in a hurry. The Bushmen of Africa and the Aboriginies of Australia hunt to eat and are not concerned with " fair chase" and " ethical" hunting.

I believe that there are hunters among us who do not choose to hunt for sport and fun but ARE HUNTERS BY NATURE. They have the deep primative instinct to hunt animals for food. To them success is not just the icing on the cake it is the cake. They feel failure if they don' t succeed. For them it is very hard to not take a shot at a deer because, it is not legal to do so. Some do what ever is legal because they do not want to get caught and punished. Some bend the laws here and there. And some become what we call " poachers" .

RE: what is unethical deer hunting?
 

Anything that takes little-no effort, like driving around until you see them (even if you have permission on all the properties) and then chasing behind them to get them running one direction, flanking them, and picking out the one you want while they run right at you. " Drive hunting" done by walking through a creek/woods and hollering and carrying on then loosing rounds at the first thing that pops up, regardless of the shot availed to you. Hunting in any way that is illegal, such as baiting (in some states), using inadequate cartridge, too many rounds in a gun, on un-permissed property, etc. I also consider it unethical to hunt with a rifle you haven' t sighted in yourself, or havent sighted in recently (and I mean actually sighting in, not just shooting one or two to make sure it' s " an inch or so high at 100, and should be dead on at 150" , know where you' re going to hit, and know it well. Loosing a round on a shot you know you probably will not make, shooting beyond your range, shooting wildly/irresponsibly at running game or at game in dense brush.

Guess that' s about all I can think of at the moment, I' m sure there' s a lot I' m forgetting though.

RE: what is unethical deer hunting?
 

what is legal,ethical or acceptable in the hunting circle could be debated forever! if it is legal,it is ethical and sporting.we may not agree that the method of hunting is the way we choose to hunt,but should not condeme those who do.i don' t agree that a dog should be allowed to cold trail a nocturnal buck from his bed when he has learned to survive from those of us that choose to still hunt.however,i do not want to force my selfish standards on those who choose to hunt legally with dogs as long as they do not break the law.i believe that planting food plots to lure deer into places where they normally would not go is baiting.i do not condeme this method although it does not meet my standards.in summary,each of us has the choice to hunt in any legal manner we want to without insisting everyone comply to OUR standards.

RE: what is unethical deer hunting?
 

Loner I couldn' t agree more with your post . Because you personally don' t agree with someone or thier method of hunting doen' t make it unethical . You could say the antis dont agree with the way any of us hunt and in thier eyes it is unethical ,but that is only thier opinion . I think what is ethical and what is not depends on each individual and how they look at hunting . There are a lot of methods of hunting I don' t agree with and I would never do ,but that doesn' t make it unethical .
Unethical to me is the individual that shoots a deer and then checks to see if it is legal like the PA antler restriction caused. LOL Or takes more than the legal limit . Wastes the game they do take ,takes shots that they never even bother to check and see if they connected . I could go on but this is just some of my ideas of ethics . Halcon