The Great Debate Over Baiting
 

I know that this topic has been talked about to death, but I have thought of a new spin to put on the arguement. Now first off, i will admitt that I am playing the devil's advocate here. It is not my intention to upset anyone, but rather to hear what people think about the idea.

To start let me tell you a little about my hunting practices. Up untill this year I did the vast majority of my deer hunting on public land. The hunter to land ratio is severely one sided where i hunt (northern Michigan...which has one of the highest number of hunters for any state). During my time of hunting (almost exclusively) on state land I used bait. I would put out corn, carrots, apples, sugar beats, or whatever I had handy that i felt would appeal to a deer's appitite. This year the Michigan DNR banned baiting in the lower penninsula due to a case of CWD found in the lower portion of the state. To say the least I wasa little upset. The area I hunt is roughly a square mile. Some may say that is alot of room, but I know of two dozen people that hunt that land from the beginning of bow season to the end. Then you have to consider the dozen or so more that "invade" come rifle season. It becomes very tight quarters. Most arguements that I hear revolve around the notion that I should set up on funnels between bedding areas and feeding areas or in the bedding areas etc. The problem with that is there are no true feeding areas where I hunt. There are no fields of mass areas of oak trees. It's almost impossible to hunt the bedding area considering over 3/4 of the land is a bedding area.I owuld be trying to shoot a fish in the ocean rather than the barrell. In addition, the bedding areas are so thick that no one could get a clean shot without cutting shooting lanes (which is illegal in michigan on state land). I hope you are starting to see my handicap. Baiting was a way for me to bring deer into my area in the hopes of getting a clean, ethical shot. In addition, I know that no one else hunts within 100 or so yards around my stand. By bringing the deer to me I am not bothering another person's hunt.

With that being said, this is where I decided to put a twist on the age old debate. Many people that I have come across are "anti-baiting". But when you think about it, most people "bait" when they hunt and don't realise it.

Let me start with the most common. Hunting over food plots or crops. I put food on the ground and the deer come to me. Hunting over a crop, the food is already on the ground and the deer come to it. Put a stand over a corn field or putting a stand over a corn pile had the same effect on deer. They are comming to eat and you are going to shoot them while they are eating. Now I have had that statement countered by being told that "You put the corn on the ground...it's not natural." Come on, the crop that you're hunting over isn't natural either...neither is the flood plot you planted. Unless you are hunting over a wild apple tree (and I am pretty sure a man named johnny planted it years ago) you are hunting over something that is not natural.

To go along with the above, hunt over the trails that are leading from bedding to feeding. Once again you are using a food item to shoot a deer. This time however you are not sitting infront of it...just a little ways off.

If you're still reading by this point I thank you for putting up with me. Here comes the interesting part. How many hunters use calls, or scents, decoys? I can't think of one hunter that doesn't use something along those lines. The point of all those devices is to appeal to one of a deer's senses or urges. All the items listed are used to entice a buck to come within range during the rut. Now think about this. I put corn on the ground to appeal to the need of a deer (hunger). I am using something to bring the deer to me...aka baiting. Using scents, calls, decoys, etc is appealing to a deer's need to breed or defend territoy. By using one of those items, i am using something to bring the deer to me...aka "baiting".

It doesn't matter what a hunter does, we are "baiting" a deer one way or another. The difference is how we go about it.

As I mentioned above this post was not intended to anger anyone or start world war three. I was sitting in the tree stand and this notion came to me. I decided to share my thoughts. For those that made it to the end I thank you and I hope I am not seen as someone who has been hunting in the sun too long. Now it's inevitable that someone has read this and can't wait to reply and tell me how much of a loony toons I am. I would like to conclude by saying that this hunting season I did not bait while hunting. I shot two deer this year despite the DNR's ban on baiting. One deer I shot in a food plot, and the other was in an acorn thicket. I did not bait them in...I merely "baited" them in. Thanks again for reading. Good luck for the remainder of the season. Oh, and if you are so inclined please comment. I would like to know what thoughts went through your mind while reading this. Again good luck and happy huntin.

RE: The Great Debate Over Baiting
 

Great read swampdog!

RE: The Great Debate Over Baiting
 

wonder how many people think of it that way?

RE: The Great Debate Over Baiting
 

You are saying the same thing that I have repeated for years on the forum. I agree with you 100%. To bait is to lure or entice.

RE: The Great Debate Over Baiting
 

Big difference between setting up a stand on the edge of an 80 acre cornfield where a deer could feed all day and not come near you versus looking down on a baitpile from 20 yards away. If you want to bait and it is legal, then go for it, but there is a big difference.

RE: The Great Debate Over Baiting
 

I have mixed feelings on this issue. I agree with Lanse in the sense that most of us hunting over a corn field, whether it is on public or private land may not get close enough to ever get a shot. The flip side of that arguement is during firearms seasons you can get your stand in most case within 200 yards of where the deer are coming into the field and reach out and touch them. I live in Tennessee and baiting is illegal, but food plots are not and are available on private and public lands. Most here disagree with baiting, but if it were legal i'm sure they would use any advantage they could.

RE: The Great Debate Over Baiting
 

Bone,

I hunt in Illinois where it is only shotguns and muzzleloaders during firearm season, so I am relating to situations where the shots are generally gonna be way under 100 yards. Archery season is gonna be a different matter and will not change by state. I'm a meat hunter and so if it became legal in Illinois, I would probably be the first to stick a salt block under my stand. However, I would be the first to admit that I am making it much easier for myself than if i was set up in the edge of a cut field.I have spent plenty of times sitting in a stand on the edge of a cut field watching deer who were "lured" to the field graze 200 yards away and never coming any closer. On th other hand, a deer "lured" to my salt block is gonnabe standing there 25 yards away.

RE: The Great Debate Over Baiting
 

X2 Lanse CC

RE: The Great Debate Over Baiting
 

Many good points Dog. I have had this same discussion on several forums. First let me say I live in MO and baiting is illegal here so I don't do it. If it were legal I would use it as a way to gain advantage, the same way I use cover and lure scents.I think the main reason those who use scents, decoys, rattle horns, etc. but view "baiting" as wrong is they view themselves as "better hunters". They look down thier noses at those who bait and view it as unethical(regardless of if it's legal or not), therefore no practice they use should be considered baiting. They view baiting as the lazy man's way to hunt.
Lance CC , that 80 acres your hunting over, did you place your stand in some unused corner or did you place it close to a deer highway into or out of the field? Deer are creatures of habit and will use the same routes more times than not. Hunters know this and use it to thier advantage. I would also ask all those who hunt these large fields, did you plant these fields or are you hunting over someone else's crop? Many who say baiting is lazy have not put in any effort to the food source the hunt over. Not directed toward you Lance. I don't know you and Iam not trying to judge you or any practice you use. As far as food plots go in my own experiance most aren't large. They are on average 1 to 2 acres.
Also those who plant food plots, why do you want to act like you're out sunup to sundown nurturing your food plot? A few hours a month pulling a drag or disk behind an ATV doesn't make you a farmer. Also if food plots fall under agricultural practices why don't you harvest that BioLogic you planted? I have said it before and I will say it here now, food plots come out of a seed bag the same as that corn.
I have one final question that I have never been able to get an answer to. If baiting is wrong and unethical why is feeding them the rest of the year ok?
I have not presented my case as eloquently as MISwampDog and for that I apologize.

RE: The Great Debate Over Baiting
 

using calls takes some kind of skill. anyone can throw corn on the ground and sit on top of it.

RE: The Great Debate Over Baiting
 

Savage,

In my neck of the woods, an 80 acre cut corn field is gonna have a lot of trails running in and out of it. And I have also set up stands on a well-travelled deer trail only to have deer come through from another direction without even using the trail. So, still different from being in a situation where you know a deer is going to end up in a specific baited spot no matter which way he comes from.

But that's just me. I don't use food plots, scents, calls, etc.I just set up in a good spot and if i get a deer, then I get a deer. If I don't i go back to the quasi-camp set up in my dad's garage and drink homemade wine andtell lies with everyone else.[8D]

RE: The Great Debate Over Baiting
 

So you want to outlaw calls and scents? They stopped letting you bait this year because of the CWD outbreak. Get over it. Calls and scents don't transmit diseases.

I hunt in South Dakota, and baiting is illegal, and I don't think it would work anyway. In your mind, however, I am baiting by hunting amongst tens of thousands of acres of corn fields..

RE: The Great Debate Over Baiting
 

What skill does it take for scents and lures?

Lanse you make a very good point. We as hunters can not guarantee any practice we use will work. I have seen many post form those who will point out that baiting doesn't guarantee deer will come in while you're sitting there. There seems to be the preception that all one has to do is open a bag of corn, pour it out, and wait 1 or 2 hours before the deer overrun you. I don't think that's how it works.

RE: The Great Debate Over Baiting
 

No I don't want to outlaw calls and scents I just want them to be viewed as what they are. A way to try an gain advantage over the deer the same as bait.

If baiting contributes to CWD why isn't illegal to feed those deer the rest of the year? Deer don't transmit disease only during deer season do they?

RE: The Great Debate Over Baiting
 

Believe me, rustling my rattle bag, blowing into my doe bleetand pouring a little tinks on a cottonball and hanging it on a branch didn't take a masters degree.

However carrying out 50 lbs of corn into public land up and down hills for 900-1500 yards would require more skill than i have :D

RE: The Great Debate Over Baiting
 

i said CALLS not scents. i have tried scents in the past and found they did not work for me, so i no longer use them. i have hunted over a feeder 1 time in a state that allows baiting. i seen nothing all morning untill around 9 a.m. when the feeder went off. it was like ringing a dinner bell, deer came from every where when they heard the feeder go off and the corn hit the ground. that morning i decided baiting was not for me.

RE: The Great Debate Over Baiting
 

Do you then view those who use scents the same as those who bait? That is,someone using a practice that takes no skill.

RE: The Great Debate Over Baiting
 

Savage,

Yep, i don't think that baiting is any sort of guarantee, unless you are dealing with the timed feeder operations that some folks have already talked about. I have had several relatives hunt that way in Texas and they said it wasnta mtter of hoping a deer would show up but ratherdeciding which of theseveral big bucks there thatthey wanted to shoot.

In terms of baitpiles, Iwould think that if you are in a state where everyone isdoing itthen that lowers the odds of deer consistently coming to yours. However, once that deer does get lured to your baitpile, it is pretty much all over. That's somewhat different than hoping that the buck on the other side of the big filed is gonna eventually drift within range of you.

RE: The Great Debate Over Baiting
 

I would tend to agree with you on timed feeders. I'm refering to baitpiles and non-timed feeders. Your point about drawing in a deer across a field is well made. My point is it's still a food source you're hunting over perhaps just not as effective. Scents,lures, drags, etc. are all used to bring deer in range just as a bait pile would be used. All those companies making scents tout how the deer will come screaming in to you. I would just like for people to see they're used for the same purpose as bait piles.

RE: The Great Debate Over Baiting
 

Yep, I think that degree of effectiveness is the key when you consider the use of various things. But like i said, I don't deal wih scents, calls, etc. either. But to each his own.

RE: The Great Debate Over Baiting
 

Here's how I see it...

IF ITS LEGAL, GO FOR IT!!!!

RE: The Great Debate Over Baiting
 

What Camocop said.


Or a salt block, or a canister with a timer, or...or...or...Hence one of the major differences between deer killing and deer hunting. I'll take the hunt hands down every time.

RE: The Great Debate Over Baiting
 

If baiting a deer due to a lack of confidence in your skill makes you sleep easier at night, go for it.

Around these parts the only people baiting are the backwoods meth-heads.

RE: The Great Debate Over Baiting
 

Bait
From Old Norse beita(“‘food’”).

Rhymes: -eɪt

Noun

bait (plural baits)

1. Any substance, especially food, used in catching fish, or other animals, by alluring them to a hook, snare, trap, or net.

2. Anything which allures; a lure; enticement; temptation.

Verb





Infinitive
to bait



Third person singular
baits



Simple past
baited



Past participle
baited



Present participle
baiting
[/align]to bait (third-person singular simple present baits, present participle baiting, simple past and past participle baited)
[ol][*]To attract fish or other animals in order to catch them.[/ol]
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had a good read, thanks. you bring up a good point :D:D[8D]

RE: The Great Debate Over Baiting
 

crokit, walker12 thanks for providing examples of that "holier than thou" attitude I was talking about. Walkerimplying someone who baits is comparable to a meth head really raises the civility of the discussion.

RE: The Great Debate Over Baiting
 

Haha, sorry I didn't mean to come off like that. I just said what everyone around here knows. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, but I believe baiting is for the hunters who don't want to put in the extra effort. Studying deer behavior, reading everything related to deer hunting, and gaining knowledge about the animal will ALWAYS pay off much more than baiting ever will.

I just couldn't live with myself if I killed a deer over bait. Just my opinion.

RE: The Great Debate Over Baiting
 

what if someone is only hunting a 10 to 100 acre tract and everyone around them is running a timed feeder. How would you go about hunting 10 acres ?
If you didnt feed too you wouldnt see squat.

RE: The Great Debate Over Baiting
 

That's a good point. I've never been in that situation so I can't say what I'd do. All I can speak from is personal experience. I've always been fortunate enough to hunt around individuals who don't bait.

RE: The Great Debate Over Baiting
 

No problem walker, you're right everyone is allowed thier opinion. About not putting in the extra effort I'd like to ask your opinion. Is a guy who leases land from a farmer and hunts over his crop putting out any extra effort? How about a landowner who leases his land to a farmer and hunts over the crop? Niether has done anything to raise the foodsource they're hunting over simply using bait provided by another. With that said let me say I'm not downing anyone whose situation may be similar to the examples I used. My point is as I understand it, someone who baits has to continuously go out and place the bait. That means they're out quite bit checking to see if anything coming in. So in the examples I have given who is putting out the extra effort?

RE: The Great Debate Over Baiting
 

I don't consider natural food sources as being bait. I tend to consider bait as corn, salt licks, or timed feeders; the illegal things in Georgia. I don't have a problem with food plots either, because it takes a lot of work to plow, plant, etc.

I don't have a problem with your two examples. I just can't stand to think of people going out and throwing 100lbs of corn or a few salt blocks in front of their stand and killing big bucks. No doubt it's effective, but I just raise my eyebrows to whether or not it's ethical.

RE: The Great Debate Over Baiting
 

Theres no doubt feeding works but it doesnt guarantee a big buck. I hunted a Texas ranch managed by the state, its for drawing hunts. Anyway I have been on this ranch during the youth hunts, were allowed to corn the roads only during youth hunts and the youths are only allowed spikes and does, we were succesfull evreytime and so were most of the others. This ranch is 15000 acers, high fenced where they do no supplemental feeding, they do studies on all the game on this ranch.
I also got to do an adult bow hunt on this ranch where we were alowed atrophy deer and one management deer. We were not allowed to feed, there were 90 bowhunters hunting 15000 acres and not a single one killed a deer. And theres a lot of big deer on it. The south Texas brush can prove to be too much unless you feed., theres no way to pattern deer you cant see, theres no food sources to hunt over, south Texas is like a brushy thorny desert. The only way to really hunt it is to hunt the roads or senderos with corn out there to stop a deer long enough for a shot.
A lot of Texas is like this, its a never ending sea of woods, theres no wooded area where the deer lives and moves out into the pastures to feed, its all woods, every where, visibilty can be 100 yards max, how do you pattern deer you cant see. Its very difficult to hunt without putting out a food source, like a feeder.

RE: The Great Debate Over Baiting
 

I hunt in Iowa - there is plenty of corn to be found everywhere. I have a few cornfields to hunt in, mabye 1000 acres m/l. I can watch them, put up trail cams, scout around, and I am not definetly going to come home with a deer.

If I set up a bait station, feeding once an hour dumping corn out under a treestand I can pretty much gaurentee I will be able to shoot all of the deer I want. This is not exciting to me. Or fun. Dumping piles of corn out and hunting 15 yds from them is nothing like hunting in a picked corn field - I am sick of people making this comparison.

I watched a video of a black bear"hunt" where the guide had been filling up a 50 gallon drum up with mollassas every week or day so that the bears would come andgorge themselveson it. Thenthe"hunter" who paid $2000 for the hunt sat in a tree 10 yds from it and blastedaway an hour into the hunt. Then the bear ran off barking like a dog for miles due to the misplaced shot. It made me sick.When I commented on itin the big game forum everyone got all up in arms and made this "you put worms on your hook" comparrison.

In my opinion, baiting is white trash backwords hillbilly technique. I find it offensive. I would never apologize for saying this either, becuause everyone is entitled to their opinion- including me.

RE: The Great Debate Over Baiting
 

Well said.

RE: The Great Debate Over Baiting
 

the only difference is your corn pile is bigger than mine.

RE: The Great Debate Over Baiting
 

I have hunted without bait and bait and I am now a supporter for baiting. I will summarize my points below:
[ul][*]One large problem we have around here is road hunting and people shooting on land without permission. When you bait, you only hunts your spots that you have set up.You don't see any other hunters and don't hunt on land without permission.[*]Hunting over a food plot is exactly the same as putting out some bait. The new food plots being planted are made to attract deer and I think they work far greater than a bait pile.[*]It is an incredible amount of work to bait a spot and keep the bait up through hunting season.It by no means is for the lazy (lazy is driving around).[*]In my area we only get one tag and I am a trophy hunter so I am very picky about shooting as deer. In turn I feed probably around 200 deer and help them make through the winter.[*]It is an incredibly amazing way to see deer within 50 yards and any shots you do make are far more successful.[/ul]
The best product on the market today is BUCK GRUB!!!

RE: The Great Debate Over Baiting
 

Again...

RE: The Great Debate Over Baiting
 

You use bait because you cant shoot a "trophy" any other way. If you want to really help the deer, shoot some does. Road hunters love to bait, because they have an easier way to find the exact spot they want to shoot from i.e. park the truck. What do you think public land would look like if everyone baited? If you want to hand feed deer, go to a zoo.

RE: The Great Debate Over Baiting
 

We hunt N MN. There are no fences, very few roads and no baiting. Unless you learn to hunt deer you won't get one unless you are lucky. We sit in tree stands 25' off the ground on trails and are very patient. You say that there is no way to pattern deer as there are no food sources? So they don't eat? Drink? Come on..you aren't making sense. I am not finding fault with your method but am having a hard time with your logic.

We aren't guaranteed a big buck but we do pretty well. We have an 8 or better rule so we let the little ones walk. We almost always tag out but the herd is at near record numbers. If I was guaranteed a big buck I guess I would feel like I do when I get invited on one of those farm release bird pheasant hunts...its fun but not really hunting.

RE: The Great Debate Over Baiting
 

what i am saying is Texas is thick and big, visibility can be 100 yds max, the woods can be 100's of square miles big with no corn fields or peanut fields, nothing, just woods and woods and woods. All of Texas is privately owned, we dont have a vast area we can hunt, we might hunt a 100 acre tract in a million acre area, theyre food is whatever they eat, grasses acorns etc. its everywhere, they dont go from wood to food sources the food is everywhere they roam, you cant sit on a field and glass there habits,theres no fields, the only thing you could do is sit on a trail and hope one comes down it that day. Or put up a food source like a feeder. Theyre good for seeing lots of deer but by no means guarantees a big buck , you hope one follows a doe in, big bucks usually ignore feeders. All my good bucks have come from rattling. Hand fed corn on roads works a lot better than a feeder for bucks, you can sit on roads or senderos and can see much much further however if a buck crosses and you dont have some feed out your not going to stop him long enough to get a shot off.

RE: The Great Debate Over Baiting
 

If enjoying the hunt more than the kill makes me holier than tho, then I guess I am, although my priest will take issue with you. Where I see a holier than tho constantly exhibited is when those who ask for an opinion can't/won't accept them.[:@]

I just have to LMAO every time I hear someone say " Baitin' ain't no different than food plots ".