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03-20-2003, 05:17 AM
#2
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Adirondack Moutains USA Member since sept/02
Posts: 1,639
RE: Whitetail Statistics
I would consider both of those small. the average buck would be atleast 180-185, the average doe 170-175. Alot of guys around me last year killed deer all weighing over 180 mark, with many closer and over the 200 mark.
03-20-2003, 11:53 AM
#3
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Old Bridge, NJ
Posts: 304
RE: Whitetail Statistics
Model722
You also have to consider where you are. The deer up your ways are bigger then the ones we get down here in the catskills. I' d say his numbers are about right with the few exceptions of course.
[:-]
You also have to consider where you are. The deer up your ways are bigger then the ones we get down here in the catskills. I' d say his numbers are about right with the few exceptions of course.
[:-]
03-20-2003, 01:19 PM
#4
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Adirondack Moutains USA Member since sept/02
Posts: 1,639
RE: Whitetail Statistics
Well the reason I said what I did is because the visiter said NORTHeastern NY. I don' t concider the Catskills to be north although they are eastern.
My point still stands, from herkimer county north these deer would be considered bambi. A doe only weighing 129, that' s not worth shooting at, not much bigger then my dog. I understand that deer down south are much smaller, and if you go to Canada they' re bigger, but for central and northern Ny this would be small. I am kind of curious about how the visiter did there research. The smallest deer I' ve ever taken from these parts still weighed atleast 140+ and I felt bad about taking her, but it was the last day and I needed some meat.
My point still stands, from herkimer county north these deer would be considered bambi. A doe only weighing 129, that' s not worth shooting at, not much bigger then my dog. I understand that deer down south are much smaller, and if you go to Canada they' re bigger, but for central and northern Ny this would be small. I am kind of curious about how the visiter did there research. The smallest deer I' ve ever taken from these parts still weighed atleast 140+ and I felt bad about taking her, but it was the last day and I needed some meat.
03-20-2003, 04:51 PM
#5
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: fort mcmurray alberta canada
Posts: 5,667
RE: Whitetail Statistics
Location does indeed make a huge difference.A good buck in alberta or saskatchewan will weight at least 250lbs live weight with many 300lbs or more.A good doe will weigh around 200lbs or more in the same area.
03-21-2003, 09:14 AM
#7
Guest
Posts: n/a
RE: Whitetail Statistics
Ok, here goes again.
some how we are sometimes logged in under HNI visitor, some times under AdkGuidesForHire.
The dimensions I stated for whitetailed deer are the AVERAGE for northern NY.
Even in 5H you will not find the AVERAGE weight of a Doe to be 170+ pounds, live or dead.
It is important to note that the original question asked did not ask what was the largest Doe ever shot or Buck ever shot, nor did it ask what was the largest deer on record, or even average harvested deer, it asked what size is average for Whitetailed Deer.
My numbers are accurate as stipulated for Northern NY, you can also compare them to NYS DEC Dead Deer weights and ages chart from 1992-1997 and see that nothing aproaches the weights stated by 722.
1.5 year old Male Deer 1992-97 avg. weight 127 (number of deer weighed 5678)
1.5 year old Female Deer 1992-97 avg. weight 104 (966)
2.5 year old and up Male Deer 1992-97 152 (1680)
2.5 year old > Female Deer 1992-97 110 (1315)
200 pound deer are like 400 pound bear, everyone ' sees' them but very few are reported since they are not average, but rather the exception.
It is also interesting that Bucks continue to gain weight throughout their lives but Does from 4.5 to 5.5 years old begin to lose weight as they age. Of particular interest to managers is the fact that no deer in northern NY successfully ovulates until a peak fall weight of 129 pounds was reached ( C.W. Severinghaus) ruling out current theory that 6 month old fawns are bred sucessfully if allowed to live.
The difficulty with biological questions is that hunters have it in their mind that the Outdoor Life numbers a writer told them in a 2 page story are gospel and the 800 pages that a biologist hands them showing the opposite to be true is ignored.
If it doesn' t start with " the top 5 ways to kill a big buck" most hunters won' t read it, which is too bad.
Since NY does not have mandatory check stations and the roaming check stations do not often weigh anything, weights and dimensions are compiled from 20 years of being a biologist with a special interest in our native animals and from the following sources which are in most libraries;
Cheatum, E. L. 1949. Bone marrow as an index of malnutrition in deer. New York State Conserv. 3(5):19-22.
Rue III, Leonard Lee. 1997. The Deer of North America. Lyons Press, NY NY.
Severinghaus, C.W. " Deer weights as an index of Range Conditions on Two Wilderness Areas in the Adirondack Region." New York Fish and Game Journal, vol.2, no.2, pp-216-18, July 1955
--------------. " Overwinter weight loss of whitetailed Deer in New York." New York Fish and Game Journal, vol. 28, no.1, p61-67, January 1981.
Mattfeld, G.F. 1974. The energetics of winter foraging by white-tailed deer: A perspective on winter concentration. Ph.D. Dissertation, State University of New York, College of Environmental Science and Forestry, Syracuse, 306 pp.
Masters, R.D. and N.E. Mathews. 1991. Notes on reproduction of old >9 years free-ranging white-tailed deer, Odocoileus virignianus, in the Adirondacks, New York. Canadian Field Naturalist, 105(2):286-287.
Nesslage, G.M. and W.F. Porter. 2001 A geostatistical analysis of deer harvest in the Adirondack Park from 1954-1997. Wildlife Society Bulletin, 29:787-794.
Underwood, H.B. and W.F. Porter. 1986. Sex ratios and harvest management: A computer simulation and analysis for white-tailed deer. Pp 83-94, in Game harvest management (S.E. Beasom, ed.). Caesar Kleberg Wildlife Research Institute, Texas A&I University, Kingsville, Texas. 374 pp.
Torgerson, Oliver and Wayne R. Porath. 1984. MidwestOak/Hickory Forest. Pages 411-426 in Lowell K. Halls (ed.) White-tailed Deer Ecology and Management. Stackpole Books, Harrisburg, PA.
There are literally rooms upon rooms full of deer data that goes ignored by the average nimrod.
R Weber
[email protected]
PO Box 238
Lake Clear, NY 12945
some how we are sometimes logged in under HNI visitor, some times under AdkGuidesForHire.
The dimensions I stated for whitetailed deer are the AVERAGE for northern NY.
Even in 5H you will not find the AVERAGE weight of a Doe to be 170+ pounds, live or dead.
It is important to note that the original question asked did not ask what was the largest Doe ever shot or Buck ever shot, nor did it ask what was the largest deer on record, or even average harvested deer, it asked what size is average for Whitetailed Deer.
My numbers are accurate as stipulated for Northern NY, you can also compare them to NYS DEC Dead Deer weights and ages chart from 1992-1997 and see that nothing aproaches the weights stated by 722.
1.5 year old Male Deer 1992-97 avg. weight 127 (number of deer weighed 5678)
1.5 year old Female Deer 1992-97 avg. weight 104 (966)
2.5 year old and up Male Deer 1992-97 152 (1680)
2.5 year old > Female Deer 1992-97 110 (1315)
200 pound deer are like 400 pound bear, everyone ' sees' them but very few are reported since they are not average, but rather the exception.
It is also interesting that Bucks continue to gain weight throughout their lives but Does from 4.5 to 5.5 years old begin to lose weight as they age. Of particular interest to managers is the fact that no deer in northern NY successfully ovulates until a peak fall weight of 129 pounds was reached ( C.W. Severinghaus) ruling out current theory that 6 month old fawns are bred sucessfully if allowed to live.
The difficulty with biological questions is that hunters have it in their mind that the Outdoor Life numbers a writer told them in a 2 page story are gospel and the 800 pages that a biologist hands them showing the opposite to be true is ignored.
If it doesn' t start with " the top 5 ways to kill a big buck" most hunters won' t read it, which is too bad.
Since NY does not have mandatory check stations and the roaming check stations do not often weigh anything, weights and dimensions are compiled from 20 years of being a biologist with a special interest in our native animals and from the following sources which are in most libraries;
Cheatum, E. L. 1949. Bone marrow as an index of malnutrition in deer. New York State Conserv. 3(5):19-22.
Rue III, Leonard Lee. 1997. The Deer of North America. Lyons Press, NY NY.
Severinghaus, C.W. " Deer weights as an index of Range Conditions on Two Wilderness Areas in the Adirondack Region." New York Fish and Game Journal, vol.2, no.2, pp-216-18, July 1955
--------------. " Overwinter weight loss of whitetailed Deer in New York." New York Fish and Game Journal, vol. 28, no.1, p61-67, January 1981.
Mattfeld, G.F. 1974. The energetics of winter foraging by white-tailed deer: A perspective on winter concentration. Ph.D. Dissertation, State University of New York, College of Environmental Science and Forestry, Syracuse, 306 pp.
Masters, R.D. and N.E. Mathews. 1991. Notes on reproduction of old >9 years free-ranging white-tailed deer, Odocoileus virignianus, in the Adirondacks, New York. Canadian Field Naturalist, 105(2):286-287.
Nesslage, G.M. and W.F. Porter. 2001 A geostatistical analysis of deer harvest in the Adirondack Park from 1954-1997. Wildlife Society Bulletin, 29:787-794.
Underwood, H.B. and W.F. Porter. 1986. Sex ratios and harvest management: A computer simulation and analysis for white-tailed deer. Pp 83-94, in Game harvest management (S.E. Beasom, ed.). Caesar Kleberg Wildlife Research Institute, Texas A&I University, Kingsville, Texas. 374 pp.
Torgerson, Oliver and Wayne R. Porath. 1984. MidwestOak/Hickory Forest. Pages 411-426 in Lowell K. Halls (ed.) White-tailed Deer Ecology and Management. Stackpole Books, Harrisburg, PA.
There are literally rooms upon rooms full of deer data that goes ignored by the average nimrod.
R Weber
[email protected]
PO Box 238
Lake Clear, NY 12945
03-22-2003, 04:38 AM
#8
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Adirondack Moutains USA Member since sept/02
Posts: 1,639
RE: Whitetail Statistics
I must be living in heaven then because I have never taken a deer that small. I' m glad there are rooms and rooms of books about this, but this nimrod speaks from experience
. I don' t shoot the first thing that I see so maybe I' m getting bigger deer. If this is the case then most of my friends must also be hunting the same way. My point still stands, I disagree with the research.
At one time a bunch of experts said the moon was made of cheese.
At one point the experts said the world was flat.
At one point the experts said the earth was the center of the universe.
At one time the wright brothers were wrong.
. I don' t shoot the first thing that I see so maybe I' m getting bigger deer. If this is the case then most of my friends must also be hunting the same way. My point still stands, I disagree with the research.At one time a bunch of experts said the moon was made of cheese.
At one point the experts said the world was flat.
At one point the experts said the earth was the center of the universe.
At one time the wright brothers were wrong.
