Whats wrong with my rifle?
 

Ok, heres the deal. I have a remington model 700 300-06. It's stainless steel with the black synthetic stock with a nikon buckmasters 3x9x40 scope. I have missed 3 deer with this gun this year and cannot figure out why. It's either 3 causes: the gun, scope, or me.

I sighted it in at 110 yds on the hood of my truck with the gun laying on top of a corn bag. This setup was very steady and secure. Started off using cheap bullets from walmart and they were perfectly in line but high. I lowered and it was still in line left to right but still about 4 inches or so high. I clicked the scope downwhere it should have been close to the bullseye, but that shot went probably a couple inches low, which I didnt click it far enough to be that low. I then switched to my federal 165 grain ballistic tips and they shot even lower and a few inches to the left. I then got frustrated and left because it still wasnt patterning good, and I'm pretty damn sure it wasnt me jerking. Came back that evening shooting the ballistic tips, and first shot was a couple inches high, right where the last cheap bullet hit. I dialed it back down and it hit bullseye and that was it. I was like damn, this thing hasnt ever been this dead on.

I know this is starting to become a long story, but to make it shorter I've missed 3 deer with it. I killed one at 50 yds, but blewher stomach out and had to shoot again.Shot low and to the left like it was doing the first time sighting it in. Could it be the gun itself thats screwed up? What about the scope? I've never been able to pattern this gun and even had others to shoot it this year, and they were all over the place.

RE: Whats wrong with my rifle?
 

I'm almost 100% sure it's not the gun, so that leaves you or the scope. If the scope is sound it's either the scope isn't sighted in good or it's you. I'm betting it's one of the two.

RE: Whats wrong with my rifle?
 

Did the scope come with the rifle? If the scope didn't come with the rifle, who mounted the scope? You might have to check your scope mounts.

RE: Whats wrong with my rifle?
 

I was practically trying to let the scope hit me in the nose so I would know that i was relaxed enough. I was making the actual firing itself surprise me and it was still straying bullets

scope was bought seperate and bass pro in charlotte mounted the scope. what could be wrong with the rings? I tightened them up before i shot

RE: Whats wrong with my rifle?
 

Have someone else shoot the gun. If they can consistantly hit the mark, then its you. How much have you ever shot a weapon? If not much, I recommend getting a 22 and do some plinking then start target practicing with your 30-06. Shoot it until your arm hurts, clean the gun then go backout and do it a couple or more sessions.Confidence in the weapon is very important. Once you are confident the gun will hit where you point it then go hunting. You may also be experiancing the fever!

RE: Whats wrong with my rifle?
 

If you lined your 30-06 at 110 yards it will probably shoot low at 50 yards.Here are a few tips to use when lining up your gun.

1.Use the same brand and grain weight of bullets,don't change after lining it up.

2.Use a steady rest or Caldwell Ledsled to hold your gun secure.

3.Shoot 3 times,then see where your groups are and adjust your scope accordingly.

4.Make sure your scope rings and mounts are secure/tight!

5.Let your gun cool down after each groups of 3 shots.

6.Make sure you adjust your up-down and left-right adjustments the right direction.

RE: Whats wrong with my rifle?
 

I agree, get another shooter first. then check scope mounts.

RE: Whats wrong with my rifle?
 

You won't believe me, but I bet you are flinching...

We have about a dozen guests a year hunt on our farms...Before any hunt I have them check their gun, most of the time they shoot about a 3-5 inch group at 100 yards...I then check the gun and it groups within 1 1/2 inches...I have been known to hand a guy an empty gun, tell him its has a round in it when it doesn't, works every time...

Check all your action screws and scope screws...Stick with the same ammo, even good guns have preferences as to what ammo groups best...Get a better setup then the hood of your truck...

Have you got a life vest for your boat??? Put it on, you'd be surprised how this absorbs recoil...You can never be a good rifle shot if you are anticipating the recoil of the gun...

Finally, wear ear plugs, the sound of a shot also makes one flinch, as well as damages your hearing...

RE: Whats wrong with my rifle?
 

haha I have handed a people a gun saying there was a round and watched the gun "kick" as they fired too. Its a good trick. I think a lot of people would be surprised how many people jerk when they pull the trigger. It takes a lot of practice and discipline to become a good shooter. That being said, that is a great rifle, I really doubt something is wrong. The scope is not the best, but unless it has been damaged it should also be ok. It is either your rings, or you. If it is your rings it is possible the scope is moving a little everytime you shoot, causing it to be all over the place. If it is you, then shoot shoot shoot. practice till it is second nature.

RE: Whats wrong with my rifle?
 

Has the trigger on the gun ever been adjusted? I couldnt get consistant with mine until I adjusted it. It wasnt the guns fault, I was flintching. The trigger pull on a 700 is pretty steep, and no matter how you sike yourself out, you still know when the gun is gonna fire. I have also had a scope that the recticle came loose on. I would check that also. But the 1st thing to do, is have someone else shoot the gun.

RE: Whats wrong with my rifle?
 

Scope mounts are probably where the problem is. I would have someone else shoot it just to eliminate human error.

RE: Whats wrong with my rifle?
 

If you know you do not flinch and you are confident that the problem is not you, you should check the scope. Once in a while I do the "square drill" to check my scope (http://www.gameandfishnetwork.com/do...quareDrill.pdf). This is a good practice anyway and will rule out most problems with your scope.

RE: Whats wrong with my rifle?
 

I think having someone else who is a really good shooter shoot it. Unless there is something loose in the scope, it probably is flinch. I have hunted many years and have trouble shooting good groups with my .270. The more you shoot the better you'll get. Try shooting just 3 shots a day for a while so you won't get frustrated.

What pisses me off is that when I'm hunting and take a shot at a deer, I don't even hear the gun go off or feel the recoil.

RE: Whats wrong with my rifle?
 

Hey, man - it might be your flux capacitor.

RE: Whats wrong with my rifle?
 

somebody else did shoot it off his bipod. he made neccesary adjustments, but these adjustments didnt correspond to where the bullet was hitting. Sometimes he would do minor adjustments with the elevation, but the bullet would hit way to high for the amount of times he clicked the elevation adjustments. what would be wrong with the scope rings? I tightened them even more today, but they werent really loose.

RE: Whats wrong with my rifle?
 

quit moving the scope and try to shoot a group. IF`you can group bullets the problem most likely is you.

RE: Whats wrong with my rifle?
 

Before doing anything with the scope you have to make sure you can shoot a good group.
- Make sure the scope is secured. It seems you already did that
- Make sure the chamber is clean and you do not have junk in there that prevents the cartridge to be loaded properly
- Make sure it is not you
If the problem persists, try to swap the scope

RE: Whats wrong with my rifle?
 

First never repeat never sight a gun in off a truck hood ,box or trampoline.Get a bench[picknic table ] Use steel rings and mounts. To illiminate human error use an adjustable front rest sand bagged [Ihave #8 leadshot in mine better than sand] and a rearbag with sand or leadshot.Set a target up at 20 yards and boresight it.Remove bolt and position gun in bags til you have the bullseye in the bore then adjust the scope til the x is on the bullseye.Fire a shot and adjust until hitting centre.Move target out to 100 yards and fire a 3 shot group then fine tune it from there.Bore sighting saves a lot of ammo and works like a big peep sight.........Hope this helps................Harold

RE: Whats wrong with my rifle?
 

I think the key is to shoot at least 3 shot groups before making any adjustments to your scope. You should be able to get at least a 2 - 3 inch group even off the hood of a pickup. You shouldn't make any adjustments to your scope based on a single shot unless it is way off and you are really close and have a good rest.

When sighting in a rifle I usually start at 50 or even 25 yards until I get it pretty close and then I move out to 100 to fine tune it.

RE: Whats wrong with my rifle?
 

Do what this guy said. Use a Lead Sled and you should be able to hit bullet holes. I have noticed on some scopes that the 0.25" equals 1 click at 100 yards is not right so just go slow with the adjustments.

RE: Whats wrong with my rifle?
 

;)To much hop scotching- meaning switching bullets, chasing the bull by adjusting after not verifing where it is actually shooting, poor rest, etc.I would start with the basic as mentioned above with one bullet, start at 25 byfolling the bore sighting instructions and make adjustments so you arejust low of the bull. Then move to 100 yards shoot a 3 shot group, wait10 minutes for cooling and shooting a secondary 3 shot group.Take your bud to watch you shoot andhe can also shoot. Groups are simply a similar pattern they can be both tight and open.;). So if the load you first try is opened up, try a secondary load for comaprison. Get yourself something better then truck hood for a shooting platform should be a priority as well.

It is entirely possible that the scope or mounts is suspect. However instead of going into a bunch of possibles and details I will say head back to the range to shoot some groups instead of shots. Letssure it isn't human error before we start ripping into things that just aren't a problem.

FYI,shooting one bull on the last shot and call it good, after dismal results ='s poor possibilities in the field. Verify before you call it good, we owe it to ourselves and more imprtantly the game!

RE: Whats wrong with my rifle?
 

I had the same problem with rifle. I bet you didnt clean the barrel before firing it. Someone told me the manufactures treat the rifling with a waxy substance to protect them while they sit on the shelves. Therefore the rifling never truly affected the rounds. I cleaned mine and it solved everything

RE: Whats wrong with my rifle?
 

A couple of things to look at. Is the scope mounted to close to the barrel? If the two are touching this will happen, This very some thing happened to me. Next when you are shooting are you resting your gun on the barrel or the forarm. The barel needs room for what they call barrel whip. Hope this helps.

RE: Whats wrong with my rifle?
 

Thanks LKNChoppers! ;)

I bought a Caldwell Leadsled and this past summer 4 of us went out and sighted our guns in and we got them on the money!One friend was shooting a new 30-06 Remington bolt action in the composite stock and he was hitting the center 2 out of 3 shots after we lined his scope up,he had a neighbor sight his gun in earlier and he told him to just shoot a little to the right! :eek:I told him he needed to shoot and sight the gun in himself because everyone looks through and holds their own gun differently.My next project is to buy a good spotting scope!

We have a few nice Shooting Ranges around here in Missouri and I have found there a lots of nice guys there to help a person out and give advice to.

RE: Whats wrong with my rifle?
 

As for the truck hood thing it reminds me of an incident were the guy fired several shots at a mark off the hood and couldn't hit it .Upon inspection he had shot three nice foot long rips down the hood like a .270 can opener.No realizing the actual bore is 2 1/2 " or more below the line of sight at scope level.Always wear shooting muffs at the range or you'll wish you had when your older and deaf.................Harold

RE: Whats wrong with my rifle?
 

The first problem I see is you took a gun hunting that you were not even sure was accurate or sighted in. Accidentally putting one round in the bullseye does not constitute a well tuned hunting rig;). I'm not overly surprised you missed deer with it.

Like some of the others have said, you need to shoot at least three shot groups when sighting in or seeing how well a particular load will shoot in your gun. Moving the scope after every shot will not get you very far if the gun and that load do not shoot consistently from shot to shot.

Could it be your scope or mounts, sure it could be but you will never know if you don't shoot some base line groups first to find out what the rifle will do.

Even a load your particular gun doesn't like should shoot 2 or 3 inch groups off from a good rest at 50 yards. So I would start there. Pick a load that should shoot well out of your gun, like don't pick the heaviest bullet you can find, or the lightest fastest bullet they make in that caliber. Pick something in the middle with a decent hunting bullet from a well known manufacturer. I prefer winchester and federal myself.

If you question the scope or mounts pull them off and start from scratch making sure everything is solid and square. Or you could take it to a shop and have the scope mounted and bore sighted. There are tests you can do to a scope to check for proper tracking and the such but you have to know where the gun shoots first and what sort of groups you can get out of it. A shop could check it out for tracking with a bore sighter most likely if you really suspect that.

You can shoot the gun off from the hood of a vehicle with a feed bag if you want, as long as you can hold the gun steady enough and repeatable shot after shot. I prefer a bench or table with an adjustable rest myself. You can get one of the plastic Bench Buddy rests pretty cheap.

Here a few tips for you to start out with. First clean the gun well before you go out. When you get there fire a few shots to foul the barrel out. Some guns will be a bit off for the first shot or two out of a cold clean barrel. When you are shooting groups let the gun cool in between groups. Shoot three or four rounds, then let the gun sit for a while with the action open.

Look for a target or make one with a square bull, not a round one. This way you can line up the cross hairs on the edges of the square instead of trying to hold them in the middle of a circle. It is much easier to do. And for now you really don't care where the bullets strike, just how well they group.

I suggest setting the scope at it's lowest power, especially at 50 yards. The more magnification you have the harder it is to hold the gun steady and the more problems you will have parallax.

One thing you can check is that your scope will hold parallax. Set the gun in a steady position so it will stay still without you holding it. Look at a target 50 to 100 yards away and shift your head from side to side and up and down. In most cases the cross hairs should stay on target. If the cross hairs move around when you shift your head the parallax is off. This means if you don't put your head in the exact same spot every time your bullet could be off by that amount. Now fire a shot and check it again. It should be the same. I have had scopes that would change after shooting them. If this happens your scope is junk and you need a new one.

When you actually start to sight in your scope only aim at and adjust one axis at a time. Don't shoot for the middle of the bull and adjust both turrets. Like if it shoots 3 inches to the right and 2 inches high don't crank on both turrets and then fire another group. Work on one axis at a time. I like to start with elevation myself. Either aim at a square target like before, or draw a line across your target. Aim at that line only concerning yourself with keeping the cross hair on that line. Don't worry about if it is moving from side to side, just try and hold steady for the up and down part. Fire three shots this way and see how far off they are.

Then adjust ONLY the elevation turret the proper amount and try again. When you get the shots as close to that line as you can do the same thing but with a line running from the top to the bottom of the target. Only concern yourself with keeping the cross hairs steady from side to side now, let it drift up and down if it wants to. Then adjust Only the windage knob. After you get them both adjusted try shooting for the center of the target.

Now you can move the target out to the distance you want to zero your scope at and adjust the elevation to that distance. Your windage should be pretty close, but if it is a calm day and needs some fine tuning you can try it. If it is windy out I wouldn't mess with it.

Keep in mind you can only sight a gun as well as you shoot. I tell people the same thing when shooting a bow. You can't tune better than you can shoot. If you are not capable of shooting better than 3 or 4 inch groups don't expect the gun to magically be able to shoot better.

Have someone watch you shoot as well. They can often see form errors or trigger panic problems you don't think you have. Or have someone load your gun for you and let you shoot it. Except have them not put a bullet in every now and then. This will let you know if you are jerking the trigger. Just remember to take your time and not get frustrated. If you get tired or frustrated quit for the day or for a while. It will only get worse if you keep going.

After you get it sighted in off from a bench try shooting it from different positions like off hand, kneeling and prone to see if anything changes or how well you shoot it.

If you have any other questions let us know.

Paul

RE: Whats wrong with my rifle?
 

I work in a gun shop and haveseen several nikon scopes this season that were defective.
Never before have we had so many problems with nikon. The shop owner has a rem. 700 in .308 and it will only shoot hornady 168 gr. match ammo. any thing else will not group.

RE: Whats wrong with my rifle?
 

Sounds to me like its you. Get yourself a good shooting bench. It sounds to me as if the gun doesnt quite fit you. It may be too long or short, this causing you to change how you hold the gun each shot. Get a bench, not the hood of a truck and a bag of corn. You need somethign SOLID. and then exhale, and squeeze the trigger.

RE: Whats wrong with my rifle?
 

when it's that erratic, it's usually the scope or scope mounts.

RE: Whats wrong with my rifle?
 

I have the same rifle, but w/ a Leupold 3x9 w/ 50mm lens. It did the same "EXACT" thing as yours. I thought it was me so I had a friend w/ more expirience shoot and it was way off. Upon inspection of the rings and mounts, we found the problem. The gun shop that installed the bases did a crappy job. Besides the scope being loose, the height of the bases were off. The front mount was about an 1/8th lower than the rear mount. Needles to say I was (^&%(*& off! I didn't have time to remount w/ new rings and bases so I ended up borrowing a rifle on a trip to GA.

RE: Whats wrong with my rifle?
 

Also make sure the barrel and action are tightened to the stock. My dad's Sako was shooting terrible groups. Here the screws at the trigger guard and floor plate were loose. Tightened them up and it was back to driving tacks.

RE: Whats wrong with my rifle?
 

What rings are you using? Didn't read every work of this thread, sorry if it's been said. I agree with most, Cheap rings or scope or both. and you have to shoot some ammo through it during off season. I love these guys that brag about the same box of shells he's had for 30 years and gets his Deer every year..Pure luck.

RE: Whats wrong with my rifle?
 

is your scope rated for your rifle? if the scope is a cheap walmart special tasco or something it may not handle anything bigger than a 22... i had that problem with my plinker, even the recoil from my 22 was setting it off. also if the scope is adjustable magnification it may get messed up when you adjust...

RE: Whats wrong with my rifle?
 

Use a different scope.

RE: Whats wrong with my rifle?
 

I agree. Even with letting the trigger pull surprise you while sighting, in the field, you are likely still pulling. Its totally different in the field, trying to kill an animal. Try getting Snap Caps (fake cartridges you can dry-fire)in your caliber, and pretend shooting (with good shot placement) at deer pictures or at deer on TV shows. It sounds silly, but pulling the trigger with a deer in the scope is good practice for pulling the trigger with deer in the scope. Add this to shooting 100-200 rounds target shooting in the month or two prior to hunting season. (once the rifle is sighted in with your good hunting rounds, you can use cheap ones for this. Consider it shooting practice, not target shooting, because where you hit in this exercise is not that improtant, consistency in form is.) Also, in the "off season," try to shoot at least one box a month, always with good form. I noticed a real difference for myself in shooting at live game when I started doing these things.