.410 for deer
12-28-2007, 07:47 AM
#41
Typical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: From Texas but now reside in MS
Posts: 823
RE: .410 for deer
ORIGINAL: Paul L Mohr
Wink, the difference is the amount of energy the two rounds produce and can transfer. It has nothing to do with the actual diameter of the bullet.
A typical standard 7mm uses a 145 grn controlled expansion bullet and can deliver near 2000 ft/lbs of energy at 100 yards.
Where as a standard 3 inch mag .410 uses a simple non expanding chunk of lead that weighs around 90 grns (sometimes less) and delivers around 400 ft/lbs of energy at 50 yards.
So even though the .410 slug is larger in diameter than the 7mm the 7mm rifle would make a larger wound channel and transfer more energy to the target than the lighter, less powered larger slug.
There really isn't much comparison between a high powered rifle and a .410 slug. Even a .223 would create a larger wound channel and deliver more energy than a .410 slug will.
In an earlier post I said the 410 was closer to a 32 handgun in ballistics, after looking at more data I will amend that and say depending on what load you pick in each it is closer to falling in between a 38 and a .357. However the pistol rounds would be using a better bullet. When I was looking earlier I was only comparing 2.5 inch loads because that is all I can use in my winchester lever gun. Some of the 3 inch loads are a bit more impressive, if you want to call those numbers impressive
.
I still feel that if you keep the range limitations in mind and pick the right shot it can get the job done. If you can put something through the lungs the deer will die, really doesn't matter what you use to make the hole.
Paul
ORIGINAL: cjwink
So a 7mm round is adequate for deer but not a 10.4 mm round?? Huh.. It is perfectly capable of putting down a deer. The only issue you have is accuaracy from a non rifled barrell..
So a 7mm round is adequate for deer but not a 10.4 mm round?? Huh.. It is perfectly capable of putting down a deer. The only issue you have is accuaracy from a non rifled barrell..
A typical standard 7mm uses a 145 grn controlled expansion bullet and can deliver near 2000 ft/lbs of energy at 100 yards.
Where as a standard 3 inch mag .410 uses a simple non expanding chunk of lead that weighs around 90 grns (sometimes less) and delivers around 400 ft/lbs of energy at 50 yards.
So even though the .410 slug is larger in diameter than the 7mm the 7mm rifle would make a larger wound channel and transfer more energy to the target than the lighter, less powered larger slug.
There really isn't much comparison between a high powered rifle and a .410 slug. Even a .223 would create a larger wound channel and deliver more energy than a .410 slug will.
In an earlier post I said the 410 was closer to a 32 handgun in ballistics, after looking at more data I will amend that and say depending on what load you pick in each it is closer to falling in between a 38 and a .357. However the pistol rounds would be using a better bullet. When I was looking earlier I was only comparing 2.5 inch loads because that is all I can use in my winchester lever gun. Some of the 3 inch loads are a bit more impressive, if you want to call those numbers impressive
.I still feel that if you keep the range limitations in mind and pick the right shot it can get the job done. If you can put something through the lungs the deer will die, really doesn't matter what you use to make the hole.
Paul
12-28-2007, 09:22 AM
#42
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Pine Hill Alabama USA
Posts: 1,280
RE: .410 for deer
Sighted it in at 50 tards
I killed my first deer with a .410 and a slug but the shot distance on the small doe was only about 30 yards. So yeah it will kill a deer but I think there are other choices that don't kick any worse that would be better. I don't see many rifled barrel .410's with decent sights on them and accuracy from a smooth barrel with just a front bead sight is pretty poor. I'd even take a rifle firing a pistol cartridge like a 357 mag or a rifle chambered for the 7.62x39 mm over a .410. Both barely kick and the bullets would be of a higher jacketed quality than the simple chunk of lead from the .410.
12-28-2007, 09:37 AM
#43
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location:
Posts: 692
RE: .410 for deer
I wonder why NEF/H+R doesn't make a rifled /scopeable .410 as everyone seems to have shot deer with smooth bore .410's ?Looks like they'd sell! Harold * a unchoked rifled barrel could shoot 41 Mag bullets
12-28-2007, 10:13 AM
#45
Typical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: From Texas but now reside in MS
Posts: 823
RE: .410 for deer
ORIGINAL: Pioneer2
I wonder why NEF/H+R doesn't make a rifled /scopeable .410 as everyone seems to have shot deer with smooth bore .410's ?Looks like they'd sell! Harold * a unchoked rifled barrel could shoot 41 Mag bullets
I wonder why NEF/H+R doesn't make a rifled /scopeable .410 as everyone seems to have shot deer with smooth bore .410's ?Looks like they'd sell! Harold * a unchoked rifled barrel could shoot 41 Mag bullets
12-28-2007, 10:43 AM
#46
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Blissfield MI USA
Posts: 5,293
RE: .410 for deer
I completely agree with you on the knockdown power thing, it is a myth. However if you use a gun with a better designed bullet that has more velocity and can transfer more energy it will usually create a bigger wound channel which is what you want with fir arm.
The question is how much damage do you really need create. Collapsed lungs are collapsed lungs right.
Paul
The question is how much damage do you really need create
. Collapsed lungs are collapsed lungs right.Paul
12-28-2007, 04:48 PM
#48
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Blissfield MI USA
Posts: 5,293
RE: .410 for deer
Really? I know guys that have hunted with 410's and have not lost any deer. I think it depends on what kind of shots your willing to take with them. I know plenty of guys that have lost deer with high powered rifles, modern inlines and slug guns. Didn't have anything to do with the weapon, it had to do with the poor shots they made on the animals.
You put a .410 slug in the vitals of a broad side deer within 40 yards and it will kill him. It won't drop him on the spot, but he will die. Now if you go slinging puny little 410 slugs at 80 to 100 yards with no regard for where they will hit then I agree you will lose some, probably more than you kill. However that is not the fault of the weapon, but the fault of the person using it.
I'm glad to say I haven't lost a deer yet with any weapon, but then again I have let quite a few walk because I didn't feel comfortable taking the shot.
Paul
You put a .410 slug in the vitals of a broad side deer within 40 yards and it will kill him. It won't drop him on the spot, but he will die. Now if you go slinging puny little 410 slugs at 80 to 100 yards with no regard for where they will hit then I agree you will lose some, probably more than you kill. However that is not the fault of the weapon, but the fault of the person using it.
I'm glad to say I haven't lost a deer yet with any weapon, but then again I have let quite a few walk because I didn't feel comfortable taking the shot.
Paul
12-28-2007, 07:22 PM
#49
Typical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location:
Posts: 562
RE: .410 for deer
ORIGINAL: UncleNorby
While shooting a deer with a 410 won't do it any good, there are many better choices, few worse.
If you know someone thatkilled a pile of deer with a 410, you also know someon that lost a pile.
While shooting a deer with a 410 won't do it any good, there are many better choices, few worse.
If you know someone thatkilled a pile of deer with a 410, you also know someon that lost a pile.
My son got a Rossi Matched Pair 22LR/20ga for Christmas. The only reason we got the 20ga instead of the .410 is because I thought it'd be better in the long run for him to hunt deer and turkey with because he can use it when he's older. I've noticed a couple things with this gun already, the 22LR barrel is tapped and will get a scope soon and the 20ga is a little strong for him right now. I do know, however, that with all of the heavy thickets around us I wouldn't hesitate to throw buckshot in the 20ga and take it on a bedding area stalk. As small as it is, it'll fit through even the tightest thickets easily and the barrel has more than enough knockdown power.
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