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-   -   killing dogs vs. hunting (https://www.huntingnet.com/forum/whitetail-deer-hunting/221987-killing-dogs-vs-hunting.html)

VT Outdoorsman 12-10-2007 06:19 PM

killing dogs vs. hunting
 
So in light of Mike Vick's recent sentencing....one of my best buddies and I were talking about this rediculousness. After talking about it for a while my buddy says something like, " I think fighting dogs is pretty much the same thing as hunting." Keep in mind he is not a hunter in any way shape or form, but this is just a hugely ignorant comment.... any thoughts?

johnnybravoo77 12-10-2007 06:31 PM

RE: killing dogs vs. hunting
 
Take him hunting!

farmcntry 12-10-2007 06:36 PM

RE: killing dogs vs. hunting
 
I've heard about all the crap I want to hear about viciously killing a domesticated animal and comparing it to hunting.
There are several differences that come to mind right off the bat.
1. We don't torture the animals we pursue.
2. We hunt wild, free ranging animals; not pinned up where we can grab them and throw them in a pit.
3. We strive to ethically and quickly take them; not have them tortured until they die in vain.
4. After we take an animal we consume it, not cast it away to waste.
5. What we do is LEGAL!!!!!!!



VT Outdoorsman 12-10-2007 06:40 PM

RE: killing dogs vs. hunting
 
Thats what i told him was the main big difference to me....we dont torture the animals, we try our best to kill them quickly and humanely.

GURU77 12-10-2007 06:43 PM

RE: killing dogs vs. hunting
 
Without hunting wildlife would become overpopulated resulting in exstinction.

JayDeavor 12-10-2007 08:17 PM

RE: killing dogs vs. hunting
 

ORIGINAL: johnnybravoo77

Take him hunting!
I agree.. Defiantly different!

Champlain Islander 12-10-2007 08:31 PM

RE: killing dogs vs. hunting
 
Ditto to what farmcntry said. He said it well.

timbercruiser 12-10-2007 08:50 PM

RE: killing dogs vs. hunting
 
Vick was the ring leader in a multi state gambling organization, ie wagering on illegal dog fights. I think that is the basis of his federalsentencing. The cruelty to animal charges might be the state charges he is facing.

FtWorthHunter 12-10-2007 08:58 PM

RE: killing dogs vs. hunting
 
You know, I can see it a bit of both ways. I know most here are pretty serious deer hunters and treat all game they hunt in the same manner they do deer. Most either lease land and others hunt public lands.

Here in Texas, we landowners face other problems. On different places, I have problems with several nuisance animals including: Hogs, aoudad sheep, coyotes, feral cats, and feral dogs. Even deer can bea problem in some areas, though not mine.

When I hunt game, I do it in an ethical manner. The game I hunt are mostly deer, but also dove, quail, pheasant, and at times ducks. When I'm out looking for these animals, I consider it hunting.

I can also hunt the other animals I've mentioned and would consider many of my sheep hunts to be actual hunts when out looking for big rams.

However, when I go out looking for hogs and the other animals, it's hardly hunting. We kill by any means necessary. Personally, I've never shot a feral cat (though I would) but have shot wild dogs when they were attacking a calf. Maybe it makes me a bad guy, but I could care less about a quick kill when going after these animals. We use assault rifles, firing hundreds of rounds, trying to hit everything we can. We chase them on ATV's, in trucks, trap them, snare them, poison them, and by any other means we can come up with (I've heard of people even using helicopters, but I havent' done it).

So, is what we do humane? That's probably up to others to decide. Is what we do necessary? Absolutely. The fact is, there are lots of wild non-native animals out there that do much more harm to the environment than good. These animals are a danger to humans, livestock, native wildlife, and native vegetation. I don't break any laws and all the means I described above are perfectly legal in Texas.

The fact is, there are laws against fighting dogs. Michael Vick broke the law. If laws are passed telling me I can't fire away at hogs, coyotes, etc., then I'll probably stop. Michael Vick knew better than to do what he did. Then he lied about his intentions and actions. Those are criminal acts and he's being treated like a criminal


NightFire 12-11-2007 12:06 AM

RE: killing dogs vs. hunting
 

ORIGINAL: FtWorthHunter

You know, I can see it a bit of both ways. I know most here are pretty serious deer hunters and treat all game they hunt in the same manner they do deer. Most either lease land and others hunt public lands.

Here in Texas, we landowners face other problems. On different places, I have problems with several nuisance animals including: Hogs, aoudad sheep, coyotes, feral cats, and feral dogs. Even deer can bea problem in some areas, though not mine.

When I hunt game, I do it in an ethical manner. The game I hunt are mostly deer, but also dove, quail, pheasant, and at times ducks. When I'm out looking for these animals, I consider it hunting.

I can also hunt the other animals I've mentioned and would consider many of my sheep hunts to be actual hunts when out looking for big rams.

However, when I go out looking for hogs and the other animals, it's hardly hunting. We kill by any means necessary. Personally, I've never shot a feral cat (though I would) but have shot wild dogs when they were attacking a calf. Maybe it makes me a bad guy, but I could care less about a quick kill when going after these animals. We use assault rifles, firing hundreds of rounds, trying to hit everything we can. We chase them on ATV's, in trucks, trap them, snare them, poison them, and by any other means we can come up with (I've heard of people even using helicopters, but I havent' done it).

So, is what we do humane? That's probably up to others to decide. Is what we do necessary? Absolutely. The fact is, there are lots of wild non-native animals out there that do much more harm to the environment than good. These animals are a danger to humans, livestock, native wildlife, and native vegetation. I don't break any laws and all the means I described above are perfectly legal in Texas.

The fact is, there are laws against fighting dogs. Michael Vick broke the law. If laws are passed telling me I can't fire away at hogs, coyotes, etc., then I'll probably stop. Michael Vick knew better than to do what he did. Then he lied about his intentions and actions. Those are criminal acts and he's being treated like a criminal

One of the big differences here is that fighting dogs are raised specifically to fight and suffer. When you are running an animal down, there is no premeditated thought of torturing the animal.

stretch56 12-11-2007 03:56 AM

RE: killing dogs vs. hunting
 
Very well said

ORIGINAL: farmcntry

I've heard about all the crap I want to hear about viciously killing a domesticated animal and comparing it to hunting.
There are several differences that come to mind right off the bat.
1. We don't torture the animals we pursue.
2. We hunt wild, free ranging animals; not pinned up where we can grab them and throw them in a pit.
3. We strive to ethically and quickly take them; not have them tortured until they die in vain.
4. After we take an animal we consume it, not cast it away to waste.
5. What we do is LEGAL!!!!!!!



NEB.BuckHunter 12-11-2007 08:38 AM

RE: killing dogs vs. hunting
 
I agree 100% with farmcntry. We do it by legal means not throwing animals together so that we can watch them kill each other. That's just sick!!! I have heard of some "hunters" that do things that are in my mind illegal, but not necessarily illegal by law. They are not true hunters though in my mind.


beprepn8 12-15-2007 09:19 AM

RE: killing dogs vs. hunting
 
How about pheasant hunting in PA? Essentially no pheasants survive the winter. Phaesants are raised and released every year. A few are killed by hunters. The remainder starve to death over the winter.

Second, I don't consider torture to be an essential part of dog fighting. If we are to contrast dog fighting with hunting we should do it on an apples apples basis. Good dog fighters against good hunters. Or, perhaps, jerk dog fighters against jerk deer hunters (not found on this forum, of course!).

dprsdhunter 12-15-2007 09:37 AM

RE: killing dogs vs. hunting
 
Regardless of whatyou compare it to , it is still against the law. -Hunting isnt. He knowingly broke the law ,got caught and deserves more than what he actually got.
I think he should have got at least 10 years just for being so stupid.The NFL stardom ,fortune and fame---he threw it all away for something he didnt have to be involved in and he knew was illegal. Just plain stupid i think

JagMagMan 12-15-2007 10:28 AM

RE: killing dogs vs. hunting
 
I agree with farmcntry 100%! There is absolutely no comparrison!

rrb 12-15-2007 01:15 PM

RE: killing dogs vs. hunting
 
Ask him if he thinks the cow his burger came from killed itself

kingvjack 12-15-2007 03:20 PM

RE: killing dogs vs. hunting
 
Honestly, I'd kill the damn dog if I had a recipe for him... so what?

okie 1 12-15-2007 06:28 PM

RE: killing dogs vs. hunting
 
We use assault rifles, firing hundreds of rounds, trying to hit everything we can. We chase them on ATV's, in trucks, trap them, snare them, poison them, and by any other means we can come up with (I've heard of people even using helicopters, but I havent' done it).

We use assault rifles, firing hundreds of rounds, trying to hit everything we can. We chase them on ATV's, in trucks, trap them, snare them, poison them, and by any other means we can come up with (I've heard of people even using helicopters, but I havent' done it).


2 spokespersons for the PETA and HSUS right there.Do you know HOW to phrase subjects that you are talking about to keep others from using aginst US

spudrow 12-15-2007 07:33 PM

RE: killing dogs vs. hunting
 
There is absolutely no comparison with dog fighting and hunting period.


Spudrow from Mo

bayou_buckslayer 12-15-2007 07:58 PM

RE: killing dogs vs. hunting
 
wow your friend must not got a lick of sense i agree with farmrc i took the words out of my mouth u said it for me!

whitetaildreamer 12-16-2007 01:25 AM

RE: killing dogs vs. hunting
 
pretty hard to breed to kill in the wild.
that is unless you are participating in a high fence ranch situation. Though I don't wish to talk for the masses, I beliee that most on this forum harvest their animals from free range situations. I think posting such a thread in this forum is just stupid. Usually I am more politically correct but I take this thread as an insult to all of us dedicated whitetail hunters. Find your contravercy somewhere else.

kdvollmer 12-16-2007 06:22 AM

RE: killing dogs vs. hunting
 
I vote they string him up like he did the dogs, or dunk him (waterboard his sorry butt) like he did the dogs. How does that even compare to hunting. When was the last time that anybody here hung a deer, or hog to kill it, or got to drown it in the pond to kill it.


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