dropping antlers
01-20-2003, 02:30 PM
#1
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Gleason, TN
Posts: 1,327
dropping antlers
I just walked out to my woods today, and was amazed to see at least 4 new big rubs. All season I only saw maybe two little rubs, now that it's over I see all this new buck sign. I thought the deer were getting ready to drop thier antlers, now it seems they still want to rut. is this normal? When will they start dropping? The soonest I've ever found a shed was in mid March.
"Hey ya'll, watch this"
"Hey ya'll, watch this"
01-20-2003, 03:03 PM
#2
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Southern Illinois
Posts: 461
RE: dropping antlers
This is normal because rubbing is also a territorial thing for deer and after the hunting season bucks in one area die and bucks from another area that were pressured may move in and they will rub to kind of mark territory. That is what I always thought. Big bucks tend to stay in the same places just hide. Little bucks tend to move around more. that is my theory
01-20-2003, 06:52 PM
#4
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Omaha NE USA
Posts: 261
RE: dropping antlers
I don't know when the majority of the bucks drop their antlers but I would think by the end of February. One stat I see each year is on our late antlerless rifle season that runs 9 days the first Saturday in January. Around 10-15% of the antlerless deer taken are bucks so they do start dropping them early. Most of the timing of when they drop is the health of the buck and the weather.
01-21-2003, 10:47 PM
#6
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Oct 1998
Location: Hughesville, PA USA
Posts: 18,322
RE: dropping antlers
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
I don't know when the majority of the bucks drop their antlers but I would think by the end of February. One stat I see each year is on our late antlerless rifle season that runs 9 days the first Saturday in January. Around 10-15% of the antlerless deer taken are bucks so they do start dropping them early. Most of the timing of when they drop is the health of the buck and the weather.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
Lefty, read "When do bucks drop their antlers" posted as HNI Visitor. Bucks start dropping their antlers due to a drop in their testosterone levels which is trigger by the end of the breeding season through daylight hours. This is regulated by the pituitary gland which is the same gland responsible for growth. When the testosterone levels drop, the cells around the pedicle (where the antlers join the skull) harden or dry to a granular. In a way, the health of the animal could be true with respects to testosterone levels but weather has nothing to do with antler growth or loss.
<font color=blue>Good Luck and Good Shooting</font id=blue>
<font color=red>Rob</font id=red>
I don't know when the majority of the bucks drop their antlers but I would think by the end of February. One stat I see each year is on our late antlerless rifle season that runs 9 days the first Saturday in January. Around 10-15% of the antlerless deer taken are bucks so they do start dropping them early. Most of the timing of when they drop is the health of the buck and the weather.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
Lefty, read "When do bucks drop their antlers" posted as HNI Visitor. Bucks start dropping their antlers due to a drop in their testosterone levels which is trigger by the end of the breeding season through daylight hours. This is regulated by the pituitary gland which is the same gland responsible for growth. When the testosterone levels drop, the cells around the pedicle (where the antlers join the skull) harden or dry to a granular. In a way, the health of the animal could be true with respects to testosterone levels but weather has nothing to do with antler growth or loss.
<font color=blue>Good Luck and Good Shooting</font id=blue>
<font color=red>Rob</font id=red>
01-25-2003, 12:34 AM
#8
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: ND
Posts: 1,627
RE: dropping antlers
Stress is the biggest factor when they shed. Stress from rut, weather, climate, amount of available food, hunting pressure (man or predators) and length of breeding season will determine when most bucks drop. Photoperiodism may play a very small part but is more of a factor when they start growing their rack, when the rack hardens in the fall and when most of the older does come in heat (main rut). External conditions effect bucks shedding and length of breeding season.
Depending on our winters, they have started shedding as early as the middle of December in tough winters where in mild winters like the last few we have had, we have seen the older main rutting bucks carrying into April. Photoperiodism can't explain that. External conditions can.
Stress does affect the size of the rack as it is growing. Example of this would be a drought/lack of food or coming off a tough winter in poor shape. External conditions plays a big role in a life of a deer and effects more then most think.
Tim
Depending on our winters, they have started shedding as early as the middle of December in tough winters where in mild winters like the last few we have had, we have seen the older main rutting bucks carrying into April. Photoperiodism can't explain that. External conditions can.
Stress does affect the size of the rack as it is growing. Example of this would be a drought/lack of food or coming off a tough winter in poor shape. External conditions plays a big role in a life of a deer and effects more then most think.
Tim
01-25-2003, 11:39 AM
#9
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Oct 1998
Location: Hughesville, PA USA
Posts: 18,322
RE: dropping antlers
TJF,
that is an interesting theory you have. In your hypothesis, then deer in the northern part of Canada should drop their antlers sooner than deer in lets say, Virginia because the winter weather is by far more severe on deer in Canada. But that doesn't hold true. Deer as far as Florida drop their antlers as well as those in Canada in roughly the same stages give or take. Thinking as you are, Canadian whitetails would not have their antlers lets say in December because they've been living in severe weather conditions while PA or ND has dropped theirs as well. The shortest day of the year is Dec 21'st...now your right about the testosterone levels and breeding season but it is the petuitory gland that regulates the cycle couple with photoperiodism. I won't deny the health of the animal is a factor, it is however all of those factors you mentioned above take place during a whitetails breeding season as well as the shortest day of the year.....hhhnmmmmm
<font color=blue>Good Luck and Good Shooting</font id=blue>
<font color=red>Rob</font id=red>
that is an interesting theory you have. In your hypothesis, then deer in the northern part of Canada should drop their antlers sooner than deer in lets say, Virginia because the winter weather is by far more severe on deer in Canada. But that doesn't hold true. Deer as far as Florida drop their antlers as well as those in Canada in roughly the same stages give or take. Thinking as you are, Canadian whitetails would not have their antlers lets say in December because they've been living in severe weather conditions while PA or ND has dropped theirs as well. The shortest day of the year is Dec 21'st...now your right about the testosterone levels and breeding season but it is the petuitory gland that regulates the cycle couple with photoperiodism. I won't deny the health of the animal is a factor, it is however all of those factors you mentioned above take place during a whitetails breeding season as well as the shortest day of the year.....hhhnmmmmm
<font color=blue>Good Luck and Good Shooting</font id=blue>
<font color=red>Rob</font id=red>
01-25-2003, 01:56 PM
#10
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: ND
Posts: 1,627
RE: dropping antlers
Rob
I don't buy the photoperiodism theroy when it comes time for a buck to shed. In an ideal environment maybe it would play a bigger factor. It does have it's merits when it comes to the start of antler growth, shedding velvet/hardened antler and the kickoff on the main rut for 1.5 and older does. No arguement there.
Most places don't have an ideal environment for deer though. Just too many external conditions such as... Out of whack buck/doe ratios. A long breeding season compared to a short one on account of it. Too high of a deer population in most areas creating overbrowsing. Weather or unusal weather that an area doesn't normally recieve. The list goes on and it will play a big factor. A tough winter here or up farther north would be no different then a drought in Texas to over browsing in New York where over population has been a big problem in some areas. They all affect the condition of the deer.
A deers first and main concern is to stay alive. A rutting buck will run away from a hot doe if it's life is endangered. I doe will run away from a fawn if it's life is in danger. I know your thinking well duh!!
But in that reguard, they also have adapted in other ways for extreme conditions to make sure they will survive. A doe will absorb or abort a fetus in extreme conditions to make sure she has the best chance of survival. An injured or run down buck will shed his hardened rack so no energy is wasted due to the rack when it should be going towards his body for the best chance of survival. The body's needs always comes first then the rack. It is not a theroy but a fact of survival.
You are right that bucks will shed in the same time period anywhere in North America. But that period can run from the middle of December to April for any given area. The only "given" is that they will shed before new growth appears. External condition affecting the condition of a buck's body decides when the testosterone shuts off in a buck since most areas are affected more by outside forces then the shortest day of the year. Like I said we have had very mild winters the last few years and the bucks hung on to their racks longer then they "normally" would. We are seeing much longer breeding seasons, more lateborn fawns, more triplets and more spike bucks (1.5 year old) then we normally see. They are all tied together on account of our milder winters/conditions, not photoperiodism.
I'll stick to my theroy. Goodluck shedhunting.
I don't buy the photoperiodism theroy when it comes time for a buck to shed. In an ideal environment maybe it would play a bigger factor. It does have it's merits when it comes to the start of antler growth, shedding velvet/hardened antler and the kickoff on the main rut for 1.5 and older does. No arguement there.
Most places don't have an ideal environment for deer though. Just too many external conditions such as... Out of whack buck/doe ratios. A long breeding season compared to a short one on account of it. Too high of a deer population in most areas creating overbrowsing. Weather or unusal weather that an area doesn't normally recieve. The list goes on and it will play a big factor. A tough winter here or up farther north would be no different then a drought in Texas to over browsing in New York where over population has been a big problem in some areas. They all affect the condition of the deer.
A deers first and main concern is to stay alive. A rutting buck will run away from a hot doe if it's life is endangered. I doe will run away from a fawn if it's life is in danger. I know your thinking well duh!!
But in that reguard, they also have adapted in other ways for extreme conditions to make sure they will survive. A doe will absorb or abort a fetus in extreme conditions to make sure she has the best chance of survival. An injured or run down buck will shed his hardened rack so no energy is wasted due to the rack when it should be going towards his body for the best chance of survival. The body's needs always comes first then the rack. It is not a theroy but a fact of survival.You are right that bucks will shed in the same time period anywhere in North America. But that period can run from the middle of December to April for any given area. The only "given" is that they will shed before new growth appears. External condition affecting the condition of a buck's body decides when the testosterone shuts off in a buck since most areas are affected more by outside forces then the shortest day of the year. Like I said we have had very mild winters the last few years and the bucks hung on to their racks longer then they "normally" would. We are seeing much longer breeding seasons, more lateborn fawns, more triplets and more spike bucks (1.5 year old) then we normally see. They are all tied together on account of our milder winters/conditions, not photoperiodism.
I'll stick to my theroy.
Goodluck shedhunting.