Tony300wby

A while back someone posted about rifles for deer hunting in Pa. There were many replies and many suggestions, most were very well explained. Some I do not understand, such as a few people said not to use the "magnum crap". They said too much meat damage. One poster even went so far as to recomend a 45-70 but stay away from the 300 magnums because they would ruin to much meat. My question to these posters is how many of you have ever shot a deer with a magnum and what would you consider a magnum cartridge. I am not saying everyone has to use a magnum to kill a deer but they do have their place. As far as meat damage goes they will not tear up a deer any worse than a standard round when used correctly. What I mean by this is I can shoot a deer on the shoulder with a 150gr. ballistic tip out of my 30-06 and loose more meat than shooting a deer BEHIND the shoulder with a 180gr. Partition out of my 300 Wby. The key to less meat damage is the right bullet placed in the right spot on the deer. If you dont want any meat damage shoot them in the head. Another comment made was that the magnums will blow through the deer and are just wasting energy. Most any round will shoot through a deer. If a bullet is producing 3200 foot pounds of energy when it hits the deer, the deer is still absorbing 3200 foot pounds with or without the bullet exiting. I would like to hear from other people who have accually used different rounds to shoot deer and hear if their results match mine because I understand every situation is different. I am not doing this post to say others dont know what they are talking about, but I think some people post on limited experience and just reply on what they think should happen. If you choose to reply please give details, caliber, bullet style and weight, distance and were the bullet hit.

stubblejumper

I now use a 7mmstw for all my deer,antelope and sheep hunting.I have also used the 257wby and 7mm mag as well as the 7mm-08 and 243.I use 140gr ballistic tips in the stw and use only lung shots.As a result no deer has ever made 50 yards after being hit and most drop on the spot.As far as meat damage I lose a rib or two on each side which amounts to very little meat.The main reason for my choice of cartridges is that I hunt open fields and mountains and ranges can be much further than for the average hunter.The flat trajectory and less wind deflection of the stw results in more precise bullet placement that results in quicker ,cleaner kills.

Turd Fergusen

I've shot a 7mm mag.for 22 years now.I hunt large wide fields.I've had shots from 20 yards out to over 400,I shoot groundhogs in the summer with it.Never had a deer take more than a few bounds & drop.Most are down & out on the spot. The groundhogs don't run far at all!I own a Ruger M77 Mark 11 & a Kenny Jarret Beanfield rifle. For deer I shoot Nosler Ballistic Tips 140 gr. handloads,this is an extremely accurate round & I've shoot 3/8 inch groups off the bags with it.For elk,& bear I shhot 160 gr.Nosler Partitions,& to tell you the truth I wouldn't mind using Partitions on deer.Neither of my rifles shoot Remington ammo with any consistancy,Federal Premiums work well in my guns so I have shot them in the past.As far as meat damage you have to expect some with a shot using ballistic tips,they're pretty explosive. I think a 165gr. is a better choice for an '06.I load them for my brother & it is flat shooting & accurate.I shot a large 8 point here in Pa. the first mornig in the neck facing me at a fairly considerable range.The ballistic tip took out the windpipe,hit a lung & nicked the corner of the heart,the deer dropped in his tracks.I was in an elevated shooting house & the angle was downhill.On a black bear hunt I had a quarting away shot at 110 yards,I was shooting partitions,when I hit the bear instead of rolling it forward the bear flipped backwards,really strange.There were actually pieces of lung in his teeth. Devestating.Arguing over calibers & "you don't need to shoot that ,shoot this" is never ending.I've had people tell me you waste energy & meat shooting a mag. but the result is dead deer,no tracking.I don't think I've ever tracked a deer more than 15 yards. I prefer high lung shots.Take their air.I say shoot whatever you want as long as YOU are comfortable with it I think it gives you a little more confidence.

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BeltedMag

I use a 7mm rem mag and shoot 139 Hornady BTSP's. You are right when you say that its all in bullet and placement. I have seen 30-06's and .270's do alot more damage than my mag. I have hit backbone with my 30-30 when i used it and lost alot more meat than my 7mm. If you hit bone with anything its going to do some damage. Oncei went magnum i will never go back.

frizzellr

I went from shooting a 300 Win Mag to a 7mm-08 Rem. Why? Because the shots around here are never over 200 yards with most being under 100 and the deer are small. The 7mm-08 Rem is a dream to shoot, plenty of power, and I can still hear after I pull the trigger. Nothing against magnums and I still love my 300 Win Mag, but for this area the 7mm-08 Rem works better for me.

xxxbuckinheatxxx

i agree with the shot placement and just because its a magnum doesn't mean it will tear up more meat.but if a bullet is moving at 3200 ft/lbs and it goes right through the deer the dear does not absorb all the energy.it would have to hit a bone and stop in the deer to absorb all 3200 ft/lbs of energy.

soonershooter

I handload for 3 different rounds. Sporterized Swedish Mauser 6.5x55. Browning Micro Medallion 7mm/08. Remington 700 7mm LA Ultra Mag. The 6.5x55 with 120 gr. Nosler Ballistic Tips is by far the worst of the 3 as meat damage is concerned. Shot behind the shoulder there's a large gellatinous bloody area on both sides of the animal that must be trimmed off. It's ok since there's not much meat to save from the ribs but it's brutal. The 7mm/08 shoots 154 gr. soft points minute of angle and it's a great woods gun being only 20" of barrel length. I also have a special load after buck hunting of 100 gr hollow points for coyotes and doe head shots of 75 yards. Again this is only for meat does strictly after I've got my buck first. After buck hunting I like to call predators to help the deer herd and hunt does with the same gun. The smaller bullet gives me more room for powder so I get tremendous velocity from this standard round. Its' also a tack driver 1/2 minute 3 shots in nearly the same hole but still I restrict myself to head shots of 75 yards or less. I either miss or the shot results in an instant lights out death. Now the Ultra Mag for big Oklahoma prairie and wheat field shots. I load 150 gr. Scirocco's. Strange that Remington offers the Scirocco in the 300 UM but not yet for the 7mm UM. This bullet has a very high BC and shoots like a laser from the 26" barrel. Muzzlebrake helps to make this also a 1 minute gun. Before I added the brake my groups were about 2" at 100 yards but after putting it on I can practice at the range without pain and I can shoot for a longer period of time to really wring it out. This bullet and velocity literally ends the life of most deer within 5 or less steps after being hit. The meat is not "tenderized" as you would imagine since the Scirocco is heavily shanked and is designed to stay together with high weight retention. So of the 3 the Swede can be the worst on meat but that's my decision since I want that round to totally devastate with it's reduced power.

The key to not blow up meat on any shot is to aim for the frontal rib cage to minimize steak and roast damage. For me though I like to break down an animal so I aim for both shoulders on a true broadside angle. Broken shoulders reduce tracking and most of the shoulder meat is full of tendons and sinew anyway.<u></u><u></u>

Edited by - soonershooter on 12/16/2002 09:16:38

skeeter 7MM

I've used different magnums and standard carts over the years. I now have a 7 Rem Mag, the reason I picked this was flat, can go up for Elk/Moose and more knock down power. More recently I used a 270 for deer, but felt sometimes that it lacked the punch to take our large deer down...the 7 Mag does that for me. I care about some meat waste, but ultimately I want my buck on the dirt. I prefer BT again due to open field, long range opps and their release of energy.

I think many calibers will work, but feel it comes down to personal confidence when in the field.

Nomercy

Pretty much what makes a magnum is the fact that the word magnum is in it's name. Other than that, most guys will agree that anything above 3000fps leaving the barrel is a magnum round (revolver rounds excluded). Some guys even say anything above 2750fps leaving the barrel is a mag, but that's more rounds than not in the high power world.

I shoot .30-06 in 150 gr loads over 3000fps MV Winchester Super-X silvertips (not Supreme balistic silvertips) and .44 mag in 240gr loads just under 1800fps Jacketed soft points. At similar distances (around 100yrds, give or take 25) I find that the .30-06 rounds do around twice the meat damage of my .44's at least, especially if I hit a bone. On several deer shot with my .30-06, I've lost much of both shoulders, and much of the frontal backstraps, while with my .44 I've rarely lost more than not of one shoulder, let alone both, with little or no peripheral damage.

We recommend the .45-70 over the .300 win mag because it's moving so much slower upon impact, around 1700fps at 100 yrds rather than 3000fps (from my speer reloading manual), and carries flat nosed bullets rather than spires, its bullets are going to expand much slower than a much more explosive spire point in .300 win mag. They'll still push through because they carry so much energy from mass, but they won't give as much of a hydrostatic shock wave, which does most meat damage. Since the .300 mag bullet is going so fast, a lot of &quot;stuff&quot; has to get out of the way in a big hurry, but instead of going forward, it goes outward too, making a conical wound tract. The .45-70 gives the &quot;stuff&quot; more time to get out of the way, leaving a much smaller cone.

BTW, if the bullet has 3200ft.lbs. and leaves the body, no it is not transfering 3200ft.lbs. to the deer. Ft.lbs. is a sloppy conversion factor of weight multiplied with the distance traveled per second, but it's altered because there is a per second value of weight as well (because weight is simply the mass times the acceleration of gravity, given in (Kilograms x meters)/second/second &quot;kilogram meter per second per second.&quot; If the bullet is still moving, it still carries energy, therefore all that it initially carried upon impact was NOT transferred, and is wasted upon impact with the ground or other object beyond your target.

Screw the 10 ring, keep them in the zero!!!