plight of the Southern Deer
05-10-2006, 09:24 AM
#23
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: The Republic of Texas
Posts: 12,171
RE: plight of the Southern Deer
ORIGINAL: superstrutter
Texas has some great deer. The only problem is they don't have very good mass, unless they are raised in a 20 by 20 pen. Bottom line is northern deer are larger than southern deer. There are more deer in the south than in the north. A southern deer is just as wary as a northern deer, unless they were raised in a 20 by 20 pen. Southern deer taste just as good as northern deer, unless they were raised in a 20 by 20 pen, then they are better. I love chasing the elusive southern White-tailed deer, even if I'm just an illiterate southern redneck. Guess what B&C, there are some really great literate people down here in the south that love to hunt deer ethically and legally. Come on back home and find out.
Texas has some great deer. The only problem is they don't have very good mass, unless they are raised in a 20 by 20 pen. Bottom line is northern deer are larger than southern deer. There are more deer in the south than in the north. A southern deer is just as wary as a northern deer, unless they were raised in a 20 by 20 pen. Southern deer taste just as good as northern deer, unless they were raised in a 20 by 20 pen, then they are better. I love chasing the elusive southern White-tailed deer, even if I'm just an illiterate southern redneck. Guess what B&C, there are some really great literate people down here in the south that love to hunt deer ethically and legally. Come on back home and find out.
Here are a few Texas bucks that were taken off "low-fence" ranches.
http://www.loscazadores.com/contest/2005/D1/places.html
The 238" buck is 10 inches bigger than any of the "high-fence" bucks last year.
05-10-2006, 09:28 AM
#24
Fork Horn
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: NY! the middle part
Posts: 443
RE: plight of the Southern Deer
My Father worked for Alcan Aluminum and we were transfered to Cleveland, and then eventually Oswego, NY. I married and procriated here and just haven't gotten the urge to leave.I have a few business ventures that could prove to be very lucrative. IF they do indeed pan out rest assured I will be splitting time between the North and South.
ORIGINAL: superstrutter
I'm really not offended. It's all fun. Why did you decide to go up north? It can't be because of the weather.
I'm really not offended. It's all fun. Why did you decide to go up north? It can't be because of the weather.
05-10-2006, 09:45 AM
#25
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: North Louisiana
Posts: 3,050
RE: plight of the Southern Deer
Come on ipscshooter, you know as well as everyone else does, that a wild free ranging Texas deer is not going to be that massive. These so called high or low fence deer are fed by humans. That is why they are larger. How many ranches let their deer live strictly off the native forage? If they did this they would go broke. If they did this then Texas deer would have some of the most puny racks in the country. Texas deer hunting is all about money. Maybe not all of it but most of it is. I have nothing against Texas deer or Texas deer hunters. It's just that most of Texas caters to high paying clients who want to put an easy trophy on the wall. There is a whole lot more to deer hunting than this. And remember, I'm not pointing a finger at all Texas deer hunters or landowners. I was just being a little sarcastic about the 20 by 20 pen. I hope you don't take all of this the wrong way.
05-10-2006, 10:16 AM
#26
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: The Republic of Texas
Posts: 12,171
RE: plight of the Southern Deer
Are you familiar with the native forage in Texas? Is there something inherently wrong with supplemental feeding? Are you suggesting that Texas is the only place that does it? Where I hunt, the "native forage" consists of cactus and mesquite and a scattering of live oaks. Drought conditions for the last two years have really hurt things bad. A little supplemental feeding helps the deer stay healthy. They don't need it in places like Illinois or Nebraska where the entire state is planted in soybeans, corn and wheat.
05-10-2006, 10:57 AM
#27
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: North Louisiana
Posts: 3,050
RE: plight of the Southern Deer
So you are agreeing with me. Without help Texas deer are puny. I didn't say there is anything wrong with supplemental feeding, but in most of Texas it's not supplemental, it's close to 100% of their diet. The largest deer in Texas are on high paying take what you want ranches. I do understand there is not as much natural vegetation in most of Texas as there is in just about any other state. Your just not going to see very many good racks outside of these ranches. If the ranches were not there, there would still be deer, right? These deer would be small with below average racks. I'm not about to pay thousands of dollars to be asked which one do you want to shoot. That is what most of Texas is all about. I know all states offer hunts like that, but Texas is the king of the cater to the rich hunts. I guess they got to do what they got to do.
05-10-2006, 11:43 AM
#28
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: The Republic of Texas
Posts: 12,171
RE: plight of the Southern Deer
You really can't blame the ranchers. They make almost as much money from their hunting operations as they do raising cattle.
I really don't know whether supplemental feeding impacts on antler development as much as increasing the carrying capacity of the land.From what I've heard, "deer corn" doesn't really have a huge nutritionalimpact. Planting food plots with certain types of forbs andother plants does have big impact, but, how is that any different than deer browsing in the soybean fields of Illinois? That's not natural forageeither.The ranch I hunt costs under $2500 per year each for about 10 hunters, on 1800 acres, with limits of 3 bucks and 4 does per lease slot. I don't think that's really a "caters only to the rich" lease. Most of the guys are blue collar. And I think that price is fairly representative of the norm. Obviously there are higher priced leases in areas of the state (i.e. South Texas) where the deer are quite a lot larger.
I really don't know whether supplemental feeding impacts on antler development as much as increasing the carrying capacity of the land.From what I've heard, "deer corn" doesn't really have a huge nutritionalimpact. Planting food plots with certain types of forbs andother plants does have big impact, but, how is that any different than deer browsing in the soybean fields of Illinois? That's not natural forageeither.The ranch I hunt costs under $2500 per year each for about 10 hunters, on 1800 acres, with limits of 3 bucks and 4 does per lease slot. I don't think that's really a "caters only to the rich" lease. Most of the guys are blue collar. And I think that price is fairly representative of the norm. Obviously there are higher priced leases in areas of the state (i.e. South Texas) where the deer are quite a lot larger.
05-10-2006, 12:08 PM
#30
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location:
Posts: 1,785
RE: plight of the Southern Deer
ORIGINAL: ipscshooter
Dude, it's way more than just typos. You are trying to call Southerners illiterates; yet, you're a borderline illiterate yourself. If you want to insult Southerners, at least proofread your stuff... Here is a quick rehash of your little essay. Corrections and comments are in brackets.
Southern boys don't take kindly to poorly crafted insults from New Yorkers. It kind ofreminds me of my favorite TV commercial of all time... A group of cowboys are sitting around the campfire at dinner time, and the picante sauce obviously tastes like crap. One of them asks "Where was this stuff made." Another looks at the jar and says "It was made in New York City." The others, in unison,exclaim "NewYork City?" One of them then adds:"Get a rope." I don't think the cook was destined to have a pleasant evening...
Dude, it's way more than just typos. You are trying to call Southerners illiterates; yet, you're a borderline illiterate yourself. If you want to insult Southerners, at least proofread your stuff... Here is a quick rehash of your little essay. Corrections and comments are in brackets.
ORIGINAL: B&C Wanna B
In a recently released study found in the new [New]England Journal of Medicine[,] their [there] seems to be a link between illiteracy and the venison that southerners [Southerners] are eating.
It actually goes way back to the days when North America had very little humanoid activity. The deer in what is now florida [Florida] were forced there over time by the superior[,] dominant northern deer. THey[They] have lived there in a less than ideal environment for thousands of years. This is why the key deer are so small. And[,] the furtherNORTH you go in the satate[state,] the deer get bigger and more educated.[For structural reasons, the second half of this sentence should read "the bigger and more educated the deer get."] But[,] do [due]to the poor quality of life and the horrible ecosystem[,] even the Northern most [Northernmost]Floridian deer are subsistant [subsistent]at best.
THis [This] long term deffinciency [deficiency] in diet and environment has caused the deer to become very unintelligent and is creating a further downward spiral as they have become so dumb they can do no more than eat enough food not to starve.
You may say this is not a big deal, but[,] scientists beg to differ. As you move north through our country[,] you find that the education systems and literacy rates climb on the way. This is not coincedence [coincidence]. Recent studies have proven that southerners [Southerners]who eat unitelligent deer are being dumbed down by the Venison [venison].
Researchers point to a tiny microbial deffinciency [deficiency (again...so you can't claim typo)] called a PION [do you mean peon?]. [If there are microbes called peons in the venison, why is this a microbial deficiency? A deficiency would mean that these microbes are missing. Or are you asserting that there are more peons in the North?] These are more prevelant [prevalent] in the South [hmmm... apparently you were trying to say there are more in the South...]and have proven to numb ones [one's] mind upon ingestion. According to the researchers[,] the only treatment for this is to stop shooting inferior deer and move as far north as you can.
THere [There] was[,] however[,] a bright lining for those of you in the midwest [Midwest]. WIth [With]the superior genetics of Midwestern deer to that of their southern neighbors and there [their] prominant [prominent]physical stature. [sentence fragment] It seems that the deer that run the farmland of the midwest [Midwest]are considered immune to PIONS [peons] and will simply stand there and FLEX, No emotion , No Sound Just flex and the PIONS [peons]will go back to FLorida [Florida].[What kind of sentence is this? There must be some punctuation missing.]
THis [This] is a very serious matter and is a fact. I suggest that Floridians[,] and other southerners [Southerners] who still have the capacity for logical thought[,] move while you can!
In a recently released study found in the new [New]England Journal of Medicine[,] their [there] seems to be a link between illiteracy and the venison that southerners [Southerners] are eating.
It actually goes way back to the days when North America had very little humanoid activity. The deer in what is now florida [Florida] were forced there over time by the superior[,] dominant northern deer. THey[They] have lived there in a less than ideal environment for thousands of years. This is why the key deer are so small. And[,] the furtherNORTH you go in the satate[state,] the deer get bigger and more educated.[For structural reasons, the second half of this sentence should read "the bigger and more educated the deer get."] But[,] do [due]to the poor quality of life and the horrible ecosystem[,] even the Northern most [Northernmost]Floridian deer are subsistant [subsistent]at best.
THis [This] long term deffinciency [deficiency] in diet and environment has caused the deer to become very unintelligent and is creating a further downward spiral as they have become so dumb they can do no more than eat enough food not to starve.
You may say this is not a big deal, but[,] scientists beg to differ. As you move north through our country[,] you find that the education systems and literacy rates climb on the way. This is not coincedence [coincidence]. Recent studies have proven that southerners [Southerners]who eat unitelligent deer are being dumbed down by the Venison [venison].
Researchers point to a tiny microbial deffinciency [deficiency (again...so you can't claim typo)] called a PION [do you mean peon?]. [If there are microbes called peons in the venison, why is this a microbial deficiency? A deficiency would mean that these microbes are missing. Or are you asserting that there are more peons in the North?] These are more prevelant [prevalent] in the South [hmmm... apparently you were trying to say there are more in the South...]and have proven to numb ones [one's] mind upon ingestion. According to the researchers[,] the only treatment for this is to stop shooting inferior deer and move as far north as you can.
THere [There] was[,] however[,] a bright lining for those of you in the midwest [Midwest]. WIth [With]the superior genetics of Midwestern deer to that of their southern neighbors and there [their] prominant [prominent]physical stature. [sentence fragment] It seems that the deer that run the farmland of the midwest [Midwest]are considered immune to PIONS [peons] and will simply stand there and FLEX, No emotion , No Sound Just flex and the PIONS [peons]will go back to FLorida [Florida].[What kind of sentence is this? There must be some punctuation missing.]
THis [This] is a very serious matter and is a fact. I suggest that Floridians[,] and other southerners [Southerners] who still have the capacity for logical thought[,] move while you can!