Where do you draw the line??
 

Not trying to start a urinating contest just wondered where people draw the line?

I lease land, but from what I've seen a guided hunt wouldn't be my cup of tea.

Instead of being a "trophy hunter" I'm starting to look for the trophy in the experience. I'm really thinking about picking up a recurve to add more of a challenge to my hunting. I still hunt with a shotgun,but it's kind of a let down when gun season starts now.

For me it's getting to be I'd rather shoot an average deer,then a large rack buck that's made not grown. By that I mean, all the antler supplements,supplemental feeding, food plots etc aren't for me.

I use a tree stand, but I'm really leaning away from all the high tech things that are coming into our sport.

I feel were turning the corner to instant gratification in hunting and I personally think I'm going to go the other way.When it becomes common place to see and kill 140 class deer what will be next?

Disclaimer: This is how I feel. It's not how what I think everyone should do.

RE: Where do you draw the line??
 

I draw the line in having somebody raise me a deer to shoot. I would never do that and would even be reluctant to go on a guided hunt. To me it wouldn't be exciting. Most peoplecan follow a guide around, sit in the tree he tells you to, and pull the trigger. I would sooner shot an average buck through my work or with with help from friends.

I use treestands, a crossbow, game camera, scents on occasion, baits, and other thing but that is because deer here are few and what is here is smart. If I hunted in an area where I could shoot 15 in a season just by sitting in a decent spot in the bush when I got time. That would push me to try for more challenging things.



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RE: Where do you draw the line??
 

Everyone has different tastes and desires. That is what makes life in a free country enjoyable. I wouldn't want to push my tastes on anyone. That said, I personally feel the obsession with racks to be absurd and a philosophical mistake. Speaking for myself, the quality of my hunting experience is not related to the size rack of the beast I kill. I am as happy taking a doe as a buck, probably happier because typically the meat of the does is better. In my short big game hunting experience I have taken one pronghorn doe (no pronghorn bucks), three whitetail does, and two whitetail bucks. The desired result of a hunt for me is to obtain good meat for my gourmet feasts, and good quality game meat satisfies that objective very well. I also want an enjoyable hunt, which for me has particular elements to it. I want to feel like I have solved the "hunting problem" myself, designed a hunting approach or method on my own. Thus, I'm not attracted to a guided hunt because the guide would be solving the hunting problem, I would just be the final instrumentality of his hunt. I prefer to hunt from the ground, from impromptu ambushes -- at least for whitetails. I like to use different ambush spots rather than reuse old, tried and true locations. I like hunting with rifles and have no interest in bow hunting or muzzle loader hunting. I acknowledge these are a bigger challenge to the hunter, but that just doesn't attract me. I feel a romance for high power centerfire rifles with a scope, and thisfeeling for such rifles is part of the fun of hunting, preferably rifles with beautiful walnut stocks and glossy blued metal.

I prefer to hunt in a unit with a high probability of drawing, even though non-trophy animals are expected, rather than submiting for a draw in a limited entry area many years before being drawn. That isn't hunting, that is hunting 1/3 the time or 1/10 the time. Because the size of the rack doesn't correlate to the quality of my hunt, this works well for me.

When did the size of the rack become the principle objective of hunting or even one of the main objectives of hunting? I think it is partly caused by the commercialization of hunting. Think about it. What better way to persuade people to spend a whole bunch of money on hunting equipment than to realign their hunting values so the size of the rack was the all-important parameter? Isn't it worth spending $1,600 on your binculars rather than $300 on your binoculars if it improves your odds of taking that B&C buck by 1%??? Now, if any old buck or doe will do, I submit that you can go afield and succeed with your grandpa's .30-30, blue jeans and a flannel shirt, and a buck knife 110, and you can hunt on some good ol' boy's property that you know from high school. But if you have to have a big rack, well now you need to be getting a tag in a hot region, and the outfitters have the leases secured on these places, and you will have to pay those outfitters top dollar to hunt with them. At least this seems plausible to me.

Its a free country. Everyone can hunt they way they want to. I agree, to me it is the hunting experience that counts and not the size of the rack.

RE: Where do you draw the line??
 

"personal gratification" I think is the key to what you said. I think in a lot of ways things have become easy and will continue to get easier in the hunting world. I'm with you 100% and pressing the pause button and if anything heading the other way. It's easy to get caught up in the technology and opportunities that are provided to make it "easier".

For me having someone scout the deer out for me, set up a shooting hut, drive me out to that shooting hut, point their finger, shoot a deer with my high powered rifle that can shoot 300 yards seems a bit.............. well ...... not like hunting. For others maybe that's what they're into....... so be it. To each their own. Goes back to personal gratification. For me, I'd get more gratification hunting and killing a spike with my bow.

Where do you draw the line is a good question. Treestands, tinks, grunt tubes, camo, 80% letoff bows, compound or recurve, release or fingers, scopes, rifles, etc...... its' endless. Personal preference and how much you want to take advantage of all the gadgets and still feel like you're "hunting".

I give myself enough equipment and technology available to succeed in my expectations with my hunting ability. Hopefully someday I'll be out there with a spear and loin cloth.[:-]:D

RE: Where do you draw the line??
 

There's a visual I could do with out.

I was on another site when a guy that's a sponser here stated, I pass on 200 in grossing deer, when people got on him about it, others retorted your just jealous.

Jealous of what? Putting up on a fence and not letting anyone but myself shoot a particular buck isn't my idea of hunting.

Is this where we are headed?

RE: Where do you draw the line??
 

I would only say "to thine own self be true"who am I to draw the line for someone else if its legal ... if you want to hunt deer with a rifle ..shotgun ...bow ...or blowgun if that is what makes your boat float go for it !

dd

RE: Where do you draw the line??
 

Quote:

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For me having someone scout the deer out for me, set up a shooting hut, drive me out to that shooting hut, point their finger, shoot a deer with my high powered rifle that can shoot 300 yards seems a bit.............. well ...... not like hunting.

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Well said!

RE: Where do you draw the line??
 

That's not the topic or the question asked.lol

Where do you draw the line??

RE: Where do you draw the line??
 

I have always thoughtthe truest sign of a sportsman ,was what they give back.I am not saying we need more hunters we need a better class of hunters.We need people that are dedicated to the future of hunting.And hunters buying hunting land is the only thing that will make hunting in the future possible.
We have a group of people that think a new Switchback will enable them to hunt next year.Investing in land is not even a thought.

RE: Where do you draw the line??
 

For me, it's just being able to get outdoors! Scouting, hunting, camping, processing,the whole nine yards of it! I know that I don't, and won't ever spend the money that many people spend on trophy hunts, but I do accept that this is just a part of today's society!
As I have said many times, I support legal hunting! If someone chooses to spend big money on a guided hunt, or high fence, thats fine by me! I don't consider them to be "canned hunts," unless its a really small piece of property! Some people don't realize that many of these, "ranches" are 30-50 thousand acres! Those are not exactly feed lots! As I said, that type of hunting is just not for me, but it is for some people!
I really like watching wildlife, and Whitetail deer in particular!
Its the animals themselves that impress me!
Most deer we see in magazines, or on TV, are of the expensive type! I still love the animals though!
I've come to the conclusion that for me, a "trophy" is a better than average buck for the area hunted! For some, it may even be a freezer full of meat!
Some of us are blessed with areas with plenty of deer, some are blessed with big deer, that can rival big, "raised" deer!
Some are blessed with the money, and/or opportunity to hunt where they wish!
Maybe, it would be best if we just count allthese blessings, and enjoy legal hunting, instead of getting too side tracked on what the "others" are doing!
Again, to me, a "better than average" buck for my area is a trophy, and just getting out in nature is a real trophy!

RE: Where do you draw the line??
 

I do think that things have gotten more than a little out of hand in terms of the obsession with trophy bucks and corresponding hunting and land management practices. Where I grew up in Illinois, there were far fewer deer and deer hunters as late as the 1980s. Things have gone crazy since then. As for me, I keep it simple in terms of scouting a location (on private land) andsetting up a stand a few weeks in advance.Except for sometimes usingscent killer, i don't use anything else fancy or high tech equipment. I don't concern myself with the big rack, I'd rather have a nice young buck or tender doe.That's pretty much the line i have drawn for myself.

RE: Where do you draw the line??
 

Personally anything that helps me be effecient I will consider. I do not like equipment that makes me alters the way I hunt though. I still believe in the philopsy for which I was taught; know your game, know the area, know your equipment, hunt the wind and be patient. I haveevolved through the years in what I like for certain equipment but I find this true with many things in life.

As far as what type of weapon I like to use, I went through the stages but know find myself loving them all. Basically as long as i am hunting I am thrilled at the prospects each season brings.

The hunt itself is the passion the feuls my obession, the harvest is mere icing on the cake. For me the pursuit, anticipation and preperation are what hunting is now all about. I spend far more hours preparing than actually hunting each year. I just love watching deer through the binos or kicking a shed from the frozen ground while going for a little stroll. I really can't get enough of our crews brainstorming sessions about how we will attack the elk this go around. I have grown very found of hitting the range trying out my equipment and finding the combo that just feels so right. This has been an evolution that started only b/c I wanted to kill bigger racks but has turned into a real love of the game I pursue.

I guess I am still a "trophy hunter" when it comes to deer being I am selective with my buck tag. However I have gone through the common stages of meat, self improvement -bettering my buck year to yearright up tocertain score levelor nothing. However in terms of "trophy hunting" I have some what digressed for lack of a better word. I still maintain selective standards but pay far more attention to maturity level of the animal vs just what he'll tape. Passing a deer is very much a rewarding occurance to me personally, it also has made me learn by observing more rather than worring about getting the shot off. I have and will continue to practice this mentality. I have and will most likely harvest a buck that is mature but less rack endowed(LOL) to possibly let the young deer blossom. I have and will continue to not just fill a tag. I will also take the chance of never seeing that buck again but still be thankful for our meeting. I view every hunt or scouting mission as an eductational opportunity, instead of dwelling on what didn't happen concentrate on what di happen, why, etc. This is part my personal challenge and level in which I feel satisfied with at this point in my hunting career. I will also remain open for this to change or evolve in the future. I pretty much expect such an occurance as that has been the pattern.

I also happen to love venison, the thought of grilling a beef steak is rather blah to me. So most definately this plays into my plans as well.

Ihunt for personal satisfaction/reasons only. As long as your happy then go hard, I see no reason to judge other hunters. I do have opinions but that's all they are.

RE: Where do you draw the line??
 

WOW LCC youll get crucified for THAT remark in HERE buddy...but Im with you my friend..they sure eat better!

dd

RE: Where do you draw the line??
 

Quote:

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ORIGINAL: Lanse couche couche

I don't concern myself with the big rack, I'd rather have a nice young buck or tender doe.That's pretty much the line i have drawn for myself.

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10-4, Bon Ami

RE: Where do you draw the line??
 

Not by me he won't.

RE: Where do you draw the line??
 

Quote:

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Where do you draw the line??

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About 50yds around my stand!:)

RE: Where do you draw the line??
 

If and when I ever shoot a trophybuck, it will be because I have stalked him or because I have found his stomping grounds and was set up in the right place at the right time at the end of the season. I refuse to shoot a good buck before the rut is over, as I prefer them to have one last chance to spread their genetics to the herd. If old age gets them before I do, so be it.

For does and management bucks, I am not opposed to using every advantage the law allows. With the deer herd out of balance, and with few of the large natural predators left, man has a duty to step in and remove the weak links that nature would have removed herself if left alone.

RE: Where do you draw the line??
 

Interesting and makes one think about themselves.

I would use a guide if I was hunting someplace far from home and would have no other way of safely finding game and/or my way out of the mountains.

To hunt something oddthatI could never hunt on my own, I'd use a guide and pay to hunt someone's property. I wouldn't want it to be fenced, but I would pay for the opportunity to hunt where animal "X" lived.

I see no point in farming deeronly to shootthem once they get old enough, big enough, or not big enough.

I will most likely continue to up my personal standards on the bucks I shoot, as long as I still find lots of time to hunt and good places to hunt. If those go away, I'll keep trying to the best of the situation I am dealt with, and work to improve it.

I'm not into the latest greatest gadgetry, I do hunt with a decent compound, but choose to shoot deer at a much closer range than I am skilled as an archer. I have the skills to kill a deer at 40 yds, but I see no reason to. I probably will try my hand at hunting with a recurve in the future, but doubt I'd ever go too far back in technology time.

That'sabout all the lines I think to draw for now:D

RE: Where do you draw the line??
 

Quote:

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If and when I ever shoot a trophybuck, it will be because I have stalked him or because I have found his stomping grounds and was set up in the right place at the right time at the end of the season.

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A few years ago I tracked a massive 12pt 4 days and a young hunter shot it by spending the night on his stand, which is illegalon FL WMA's.

RE: Where do you draw the line??
 

RY very good post ... I think a lot of the TV shows have the younger hunters thinking about"what does that buck score" ...if you read most the post here after a buck pic is posted one of the very first questions is "what does he score" or you see post "what does he score" and he may only be a spike ... its become obviously more of a business then a sport now just like bass fishing and turkey hunting ...My dog has to be larger then your dog syndrome...

dd

RE: Where do you draw the line??
 

Very good post skeeter!

I could really care less about score. I do try to pinpoint a few different bucks that I will hunt during the season. I try to take the biggest/most mature buck in my area that I've scouted all pre season.More because they present more of a challenge to hunt rather than a number they will score. I will pass on several small bucks during the season in pursuit of what I'm after. The small bucks just don't do it for me anymore. I'll shoot does for the meat. I'll eat bucktag soup before shooting a young buck. That's just me though. That's what personally makes me happy while hunting. Doesn't for 1 second mean everyone should adopt the same theory. Again.... to each their own.

And to date my favorite hunt ever was on a buck that would probably score 100? It was a long time ago and I wouldn't shoot that buck today, but I'll never forget that hunt. I still hunted him for over 3 hours.Long story short...ended up cutting him off and getting him within bowrange and taking him. It was absolutely awesome. That whole experience got the ole heart thumping and more memorable than some of the BIG bucks I've taken that are like textbook hunts. Set up... wind is perfect..steps out dead broadside at 15 yards.... no clue you're there..... TWAP!!!

RE: Where do you draw the line??
 

At this point in my life, I hunt for venison. I could care less what is sitting on top of the head. And I consider myself a trophy hunter. The trophy, in my eyes, is any deer. As for high fenced "canned" hunts, it is not my thing. I would not partake in it, but that is just me. I'm not gonna bust someones chops for doing it though. It is their life, an dit's also their money. What ever gives them that warm fuzzy feeling inside is up to them, not me. As for a guided hunt, this is a broad spectrum. From being babysitted every second you are in the field to being dropped off at a stand and picked back up.If I ever traveled a great distance to hunt, I would find a guide service. Someone that knows the area, and can help me by sharing their knowledge, and experience. I hunt cornfed deer in Illinois, I gaurantee my hunting style would not work at all in the Rocky Mountains. Nor would I even know where to begin. And If I am investing that kind of money on a hunt, I want the best chance at seeing a return of my investment.

Ethics is a word that get thrown around a lot. Really it all boils down to each individual on a personal level. What I may consider ethical, others might not. That is why I have always felt, as long as you are within your legal rights, it isn't up to me to make judgement. I'm not the one who has to think about what they did every night.

RE: Where do you draw the line??
 

For me, I will try anything once within reason. If someone hasn't tried something I really don't believe they can make an opinion on it. I have tried the pen'd in dog Hog hunts, and have formed the opinion, that it sucks. Never felt more disgusted with myself. Tried the pen'd in hog hunts no dogs with bow. Well takes alot more skill but still I just couldn't get that feeling you get when you kill a wild freeroaming animal. Tried guided moose hunts and would do that again. I mean if you are stalking a moose, you end up just running up on him no matter if you are guided or by yourself. As usual its mostly luck. So thats pretty cool. Jury is still out on whether I plan on hunting deer in Alberta out of a tower. One, you see some different land, and different animals. But not much else. I have tried baiting and it was a waste of time for me. That was several years ago. I draw the line on no baiting.

RE: Where do you draw the line??
 

Jess well travel on down to Alabamaand when you come be sure to use B.R.G.S ..... I think you will be satified cause they take a LOT of deer !

dd

RE: Where do you draw the line??
 

We pay to be married whats the difference ????

RE: Where do you draw the line??
 

LOL ..now THATS a FACT Cardeer

dd

RE: Where do you draw the line??
 

Maybe I don't understand this post. I wouldn't even consider a hunt that wasn't 100% fair chase of free roaming animals. If it wasn't, it'd be called shooting instead of hunting. Another thing I don't get is everybody saying they don't care about antlers. BS, Everybody is impressed when they see a big deer with huge antlers. A lot of people will never even see such an animal. I love hunting whitetail deer, I live on the venison that I killed and I hunt from Sept. until mid Jan. For burger and sausage, you can't beat big bucks or does, you get more meat on bigger animals. For tasty steaks, chops or loins, you can't beat the 1 1/2 year old deer. In my case the does need thining out to keep the ratio in balance, so I shoot them for all my tasty meat. Then I love to hunt for BIG bucks. They are like a different species. I think it really tests your skills to match wits with big bucks. I am competing with no one but myself. I do it for me. Its what I like. A personal thing. In short, with the length of most deer seasons a person with reasonable skills and an enormous amount of time ( like I have ) should be able to get all the tasty meat they desire and still have the oppertunity to try for a big buck. If you get one great! If not, Still great, you still got to be out in the woods enjoying yourself. That is what hunting is for me. Some one is always going to get a bigger deer than me. good for them they probably deserved it. But I still feel good about the skills I've accquired from hunting big bucks. Big horns means mature animal, different playing field. It may not be for everybody. That's why its to each his own. Make yourself happy. But don't say you don't care about the horns, just say you don't have the time for such a commitment. Big horns are cool, who wouldn't be pleased to take such an elusive animal?

RE: Where do you draw the line??
 

News flash Greg ...there are those who do not care about big horns ..I hunt with two older men in Tennessee that will only shot doe's ...thats it because they are meat hunters....now I have to admit I LOVE big racks (on deer to) but some guys really could care less ...

dd

RE: Where do you draw the line??
 

Well DD, It's not really a news flash to me about the people you describe, the meat hunters, but I thought all the old timers with that belief had either retired from hunting if not from from earth itself. You get a lot more meat from a 200 plus pound deer than a 125 pounder. Like I said, you can have your cake and eat it too. Shoot all your meat deer first, then try and match wits with a big one. The last time I heard some one say " Ya can't eat the horns ", the guy was from the depression era. No ya can't eat the horns, but ya sure get a lot of summer sausage and burger from those big ones. Most people that I hear talk about deer, even non-hunters, seem genuinely excited when they see a big buck. " You shoulda seen the huge buck that I saw the other day, horns out to here!". When they see normal deer, they aren't nearly as excited if they even mention it at all. You know, " Yeah, I seen a couple deer the other day, nothin' special. couple of does and a small buck." That kind of thing. And what about deer camp talk, Mossyhorns, The Grey Ghost and King of the Woods. Those were the storries that got me fired up when I first was starting to hunt. I'm sure glad it wasn't " Come on, lets get us some meat and don't shoot nothin' with big horns, ya can't eat them!" That wouldn't of inspired me much. I just think that most people admire big horned bucks. It wouldn't be such big bussiness now days if it were just for the meat. The "I just want the meat" guys are the smallest percentage of hunters now days or guys that don't have a lot of time to try for big bucks. A lot of people that say that kind of thing are just BSing and trying to make themselves feel better. If a huge buck appeared in front of them would you bet your last dollar that they wouldn't shoot it?

RE: Where do you draw the line??
 

It's the ones that are raised like cattle that I don't care about.One that are accustmed to a human's.

I will admit this, killing a deer off the ground with my bow, would mean more to me then killing a large racked deer from a distance with a gun that I didn't know was around.

Being able to spot and stalk a large racked buck and kill it with my bow. Or patterning a big buck and killing it. Just the thought of it gives me goose bumps.

RE: Where do you draw the line??
 

This is what I meant about the animals being 100% wild and free roaming. I only shot pen raised pheasants when I was training my puppy. Otherwise I don't shoot game farm animals.

RE: Where do you draw the line??
 

Greg I have to agree with most everything you said ..I think its a goal that most of us set and are measured by in this sport...Ive seen your pics of the bucks you have posted and gained a lot of respect for you as a hunter... but I can tell you a 150lb deer here is like a 200lb deer from where your from ...

dd

RE: Where do you draw the line??
 

saw a hunt on t.v. the guide told his hunter ,put your rifle where you can cover the two tree's on your side the, deer will come out around 4;00 pm. The hunter waits ,them bang he told the guide your 5 min. late .That is not hunting in book ,I would rather do for myself.:D:D:D:D

RE: Where do you draw the line??
 

That's the kind of s*#t I'm confused about. I thought deer were smaller the closer they live to the equator ( Bergmanns rule or something like that ) , then I see pics and articles from Texas, Georgia or some other place down south that is supposedly 200 pounds or so. Are these imported deer?

RE: Where do you draw the line??
 

I like to hunt open public land..by open public land I mean public land that is open to anyone with hunting license and is open the whole season. No baiting, no food plots, no dogs no antler restrictions..5" on one side and he's a shooter for just about everybody that sees him.I hunt this type land because it's the most pressured and most challenging to hunt and the deer are as wild as they get. When I get lucky and kill a trophy buck there is a sense of accomplishment I can't get hunting anywhere else and it's nice knowing no-one can belittle your accomplishment. You didn't shoot over bait, in a food plot, it wasn't passed over for two or three yrs. and allowed to roam around until time toslaughter...it was shot at from the day it had one antler5" long and survived to become a trophy by being wild and cunning.
Thistype of hunting is not for everyone because you may go a full season without even seeing a buck..the deer are very nocturnal and population is low.Istarted this yr. to hunt with flintlocks I build and that has really added to the hunt.

RE: Where do you draw the line??
 

I don't know about the big racks being the best hunt. My father's 13 point buck was probably the shortest and easiest hunt of his career. This last year, the biggest rack inmy area was taken by someone hunting in the middle of an open field with minimal cover. That's not to say that some big bucks can't be a damn hard hunt, though. As for quality of meat, if I have one tag to fill, I'll take a young'in that translates into some very good steaks and roasts as opposed to a 200 pounder that gets turned into burger. No problem with those who do the opposite, I'm just offering another post on where I draw the line.

RE: Where do you draw the line??
 

If a buck is legal I shoot him..if I feel like it. That's what I like about the public land I hunt..2 bucks a day..if you can and want to. I personally don't really think the trophy bucks are any harder to come by than any other deer...until you decide to hunt one particuliar one on open public land. Then it gets tough. I may see a big one right out in the open, during the middle of the morning or afternoon..but 99.9% of the time it's the first and only time I will see him. It's that 1/10% of my hunting time that is successful that gets me up every morning to do it all over again.

RE: Where do you draw the line??
 

Greg H.
Sounds like the only thing that brings you satisfaction withhunting is killing something withbig horns. That's a shame IMO. The sport is heading more and more that way and farther away from the pure essence of hunting.

I think your blanket statement that "everyone is after big racks" couldn't be farther from the truth. There's a lot more that drives me and others to hunt than chasing the biggest buck in the county. If that ever becomes the sole purpose for me, I'll hang it up. I get as much enjoyment out of shooting a doe as I do a 150" buck. My heart beats just as hard watching a small buck go by my stand as it does when I'm about ready to release an arrow at a mature buck.

Obviously if a big buck was standing in front of any hunter they would shoot it. That's a moot point. If I ever get to the point where my only enjoyment from hunting is whether I get a certain class buck or not then I'll quit.

RE: Where do you draw the line??
 

HERE HERE NY ... WELL SAID..CAN I GET AN AMEN! ....

dd

RE: Where do you draw the line??
 

As far as "drawing the line,"as I've said, I have not hunted high fences, guided hunts, or even high dollar places!
But, like it or not, $$$ is becoming a big part of hunting! While its not exactly what most of us would call "hunting," not all "high fences" are "feeder pens!" Do the math! 30,000 acres is several square miles!
As for guided hunts, I can see if you are 1000's ofmiles away from a hunting spot,and paid big $$$ to book a hunt, you might want a "guide," because of distance, and time restrictions!
I can also step back, and see that not all people have the time, or maybeeven the physical ability to scout out a place of their own, and do all the "work" involved in hunting! I just happen to like it all! From the scouting, to the meat proccessing!
Yes, some may just be lazy, some may have more money, than time, or even brains, for that matter! But, if it is legal,it really does allow more people to enjoy the sport of "hunting!"
Even if its not, what most of us would call "hunting!
There was a time when I have been in awe of, and even maybe a little envious at people who could afford 180+ class bucks, that didn't take near the effort I put into hunting!
Now, I say if you want to spend 15,000 dollars on a deer, go ahead!
My doe, or "better than average buck for the area," are my trophies!
So, I guess I draw the line at being legal!