Ethics Question - You make the call
11-20-2005, 10:34 PM
#1
Fork Horn
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The flatlands South of WI
Posts: 225
Ethics Question - You make the call
I had an incident occur this weekend during opening day of the Wisconsin gun deer season. I have a question as to who was right and who was wrong so I will try to present the facts as unbiased as I can.
Hunter A and Hunter B are both hunting on public land. The area is completely open to the public and anyone can hunt anywhere, anytime. There is no reservation system, etc. You essentially walk into the woods and hunt. The 2 hunters do not know each other, have never met.
Hunter A scouts the area during the archery season and decides to hunt a particular spot for the first time. He goes out the day before opening and sets up his stand in the spot.He does notnotice any other stands in the area.
Hunter B has hunted the area for several years and decides to return to the same spot he hashunted for the last few years. The day before the opener, he goes out and sets uphis stand in the usual spot. He does not notice any other stands in the area which does not surprise him. He has not had competition for the spot in the past.
As luck would have it, the two stands are only 50 yards apart and neither hunter will ever know which stand went up first.
The next day, opening morning arrives.
Hunter Ahikes out and sets up in the stand a full hour before sunrise. He knows it is publicland and he does not want anyone to beat him into the area. He gets settled in. 45 minutes later, he sees a flashlight approaching.....
Hunter B hikes out andnears his stand about 15 minutes before sunrise, lit flashlight in hand. As he approaches, he is surprised ashe has a flashlight aimed at him from up in a tree.Hunter A is shining a flashlight at him from up in a tree, 50 yards from his spot.Hunter B, is now aware that there is already a hunter in place, but climbs into his own stand anyway, believing that this spot is rightfully his for seniority reasons.
Hunter A, seeing B climbing in,continues to shine his light at B, and also claps hands, coughs, and makes other loud obvious noise, believing that Hunter B is obligated to hunt elsewhere..
Both hunters are fully aware of each other and both are unhappy about it.Neither hunter wants to walk over to speak to the other for:
A. Fear ofugly confrontation
B. Unwillingness to climb down and walk over to the other because it is now legal shooting time,the best time of the day, on the best day of the season.
C. Both believe that climbing downmay be considered as acknowledgement of defeat.
Here is the ethics question. Which hunter should be allowed to remain and which one should should have done the right thing and moved on immediately?
I look forward to your responses!
Hunter A and Hunter B are both hunting on public land. The area is completely open to the public and anyone can hunt anywhere, anytime. There is no reservation system, etc. You essentially walk into the woods and hunt. The 2 hunters do not know each other, have never met.
Hunter A scouts the area during the archery season and decides to hunt a particular spot for the first time. He goes out the day before opening and sets up his stand in the spot.He does notnotice any other stands in the area.
Hunter B has hunted the area for several years and decides to return to the same spot he hashunted for the last few years. The day before the opener, he goes out and sets uphis stand in the usual spot. He does not notice any other stands in the area which does not surprise him. He has not had competition for the spot in the past.
As luck would have it, the two stands are only 50 yards apart and neither hunter will ever know which stand went up first.
The next day, opening morning arrives.
Hunter Ahikes out and sets up in the stand a full hour before sunrise. He knows it is publicland and he does not want anyone to beat him into the area. He gets settled in. 45 minutes later, he sees a flashlight approaching.....
Hunter B hikes out andnears his stand about 15 minutes before sunrise, lit flashlight in hand. As he approaches, he is surprised ashe has a flashlight aimed at him from up in a tree.Hunter A is shining a flashlight at him from up in a tree, 50 yards from his spot.Hunter B, is now aware that there is already a hunter in place, but climbs into his own stand anyway, believing that this spot is rightfully his for seniority reasons.
Hunter A, seeing B climbing in,continues to shine his light at B, and also claps hands, coughs, and makes other loud obvious noise, believing that Hunter B is obligated to hunt elsewhere..
Both hunters are fully aware of each other and both are unhappy about it.Neither hunter wants to walk over to speak to the other for:
A. Fear ofugly confrontation
B. Unwillingness to climb down and walk over to the other because it is now legal shooting time,the best time of the day, on the best day of the season.
C. Both believe that climbing downmay be considered as acknowledgement of defeat.
Here is the ethics question. Which hunter should be allowed to remain and which one should should have done the right thing and moved on immediately?
I look forward to your responses!
11-20-2005, 11:01 PM
#3
Fork Horn
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IDAHO
Posts: 252
RE: Ethics Question - You make the call
Tough question!! Due the fact that the area is open to public. Not private. IMO, Hunter A by all regards should not have to budge. Hunter B could always return another day, but doesn't have to leave. Hunter B as you mentioned has been at the hunting location in question several times. Keep in mind not all hunters have common sense. Maybe Hunter A setup his stand after seeing Hunter B(stand) and knew he had better get to his stand before Hunter B on opening day. I'm sure Hunter B would have noticed a tree stand that close to his if it was there before him. Lots of scenerios. Basically Hunter B is not going to have a good day unless he relocates. Hunter A obviously isn't leaving w/o making some noise. Public land hunting just sucks sometimes. Good Luck.
11-20-2005, 11:19 PM
#4
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Sierra Nevadas., Ca
Posts: 1,050
RE: Ethics Question - You make the call
I hunt public land. I always go on the first come first served theory. I have frequently left an area as quietly as I could when I realized that someone else is there. I think that's the right thing to do. Legally, I don't have to leave, but it's just a neighborly thing to do. It's also safer. Ihave arrived at an area before and sat for a couple of hours. After I took a deer, another hunter jumped up about 20 yards away, mad as hell. He didn't know I was there, and I didn't know he was there. This could have been dangerous, but as it turned out, it was just a cause for argument. This guy claimed he was there for about 4 hours. This would have put him there a good 2 hours before me. Had I known he was there, I would have left, but I didn't. We talked it out and all ended as well as it could.
In your scenario, I think hunter A should get to stay and hunter B should have gracefully bowed out. But as pointed out, they could have both stayed and whoever got the best shot wins. Senority doesn't count here. I could easily say that I've hunted a public area years before and therefore have rights to it. It's called public land because no one has rights to it.
In your scenario, I think hunter A should get to stay and hunter B should have gracefully bowed out. But as pointed out, they could have both stayed and whoever got the best shot wins. Senority doesn't count here. I could easily say that I've hunted a public area years before and therefore have rights to it. It's called public land because no one has rights to it.
11-20-2005, 11:41 PM
#5
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 494
RE: Ethics Question - You make the call
To me, its very cut and dried - I agree that B should gracefully leave. Seniority has absolutely no weight on public land; it's strictly first come first served.
As for seeing each other's stands when they dropped off their own. I can imagine many situations where they would not be visible 50 yards from each other. Two that come to mind are: (1) brushy in the line of sight between the two (2) stands were climbing stands and were actually left at the base of the tree for use the next day (this is what I do) - very difficult if not impossible to see unless you actually walk up on it.
But bottom line is if I were B, I would have left that day, and gotten there much earlier next time! THis is exactly the rationale I used last time I was on public land - I went in at least an hour earlier than I normally would to be there first in case anyone else showed up (even though there was no sign the week before when I scouted and the day before when brought my stuff in. I normally try to get in 1 hour before shooting time (e.g. 1.5 hours before daylight) - on public land I'd go in an hour earlier than that. When I was sitting up there, I saw lights a reasonable distance from my stand and also couple of people walked in (following my reflecter-ized path through the marshy brush) and when I shined my headlamp at them, they went elsewhere.
As for seeing each other's stands when they dropped off their own. I can imagine many situations where they would not be visible 50 yards from each other. Two that come to mind are: (1) brushy in the line of sight between the two (2) stands were climbing stands and were actually left at the base of the tree for use the next day (this is what I do) - very difficult if not impossible to see unless you actually walk up on it.
But bottom line is if I were B, I would have left that day, and gotten there much earlier next time! THis is exactly the rationale I used last time I was on public land - I went in at least an hour earlier than I normally would to be there first in case anyone else showed up (even though there was no sign the week before when I scouted and the day before when brought my stuff in. I normally try to get in 1 hour before shooting time (e.g. 1.5 hours before daylight) - on public land I'd go in an hour earlier than that. When I was sitting up there, I saw lights a reasonable distance from my stand and also couple of people walked in (following my reflecter-ized path through the marshy brush) and when I shined my headlamp at them, they went elsewhere.
11-20-2005, 11:44 PM
#6
Fork Horn
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Central Missouri
Posts: 360
RE: Ethics Question - You make the call
I ve seen guys hang stands on trees three feet apart, on a property line, they each took two directions to watch and let the other one know when a deer was on the other one's side of the fence. Usually they both wind up with a deer within an hour of each other.
11-21-2005, 05:39 AM
#7
RE: Ethics Question - You make the call
Man thats a tuff one ... but if I were Hunter A or B when I got back to my truck I would go home and start looking in the paper for a hunting club I could get in ....I HATE hunting public land just because of something like this !
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11-21-2005, 05:51 AM
#8
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location:
Posts: 11,472
RE: Ethics Question - You make the call
No question Hunter B should be the one to move. There is no seniority on public land. I'm not too familiar with hunting public land (thank God), but sounds cut and dry to me that it is a first come first serve deal. You snooze..... you lose.
11-21-2005, 05:55 AM
#9
Dominant Buck
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Ramsey , Indiana
Posts: 22,545
RE: Ethics Question - You make the call
First come , first served is the rule on public land , hunter B should move his stand since he arrived later , although he is under no obligation to do so .
11-21-2005, 05:58 AM
#10
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Sackets Harbor, New York
Posts: 2,509
RE: Ethics Question - You make the call
out of respect, B should have went elsewhere. Also out of respect, A shouldnt have been clapping and shining the light at B once he was in the stand. Bu neither of them have anymore right to it, and neither should have to leave.