The Ideal Deer Cartridge
11-13-2005, 10:45 AM
#1
The Ideal Deer Cartridge
I found this story very interesting and wanted to share it with you guys ... I own a pre war Savage 99 300 and love it ... its not one of the newer exotic WSM's but I enjoy it ... here is the story .. tell me what YOU think ?
DD
Ideal Deer Cartridges
By Chuck Hawks
What we need is a good, effective, North American deer hunting cartridge and rifle combination. We need a rifle that is reliable, accurate, easy to operate, and easy to carry. And we need a cartridge that can be chambered in short, light rifles and still not kick the shooter out from under his or her hat; a cartridge with a maximum point blank range (+/- 3" from the line of sight) of at least 200 yards. This ideal deer rifle/cartridge combination must shoot bullets of big game hunting diameter and weight, say .264 caliber and 150 grains, or larger. And it should have an optimal killing range for taking a 200 pound deer of at least 200 yards.
Three older, established cartridges come to mind. These are the .30-30 Winchester, .300 Savage, and .32 Winchester Special. All three shoot a 150-180 grain bullet fast enough so that it won't rise or fall more than about 3 inches until it is out past 200 yards when properly zeroed. A 200 yard trajectory of plus or minus 3" will take about 90% of all the deer killed in North America. All three of these cartridges are readily available anywhere in North America that deer are hunted, and they are chambered in fast handling lever action "deer rifles" like the Winchester Model 94, Marlin 336, and Savage 99. And because these rifles have been made for over a century, there are many good, used rifles available to the bargain conscious hunter.
These traditional deer rifles became traditional deer rifles by being very efficient and popular. The lever action is much more convenient to operate from the shoulder than a bolt action, as well as faster for repeat shots and, unlike a bolt action, it is ambidextrous. It is also flat and easier to carry in the hand, or a saddle scabbard, than a bolt action. Its only real competitor today is the autoloading rifle. But the autoloader is generally heavier and not as reliable as a lever action, particularly in very cold or dusty climates, and it may not be legal in all jurisdictions. For all of these reasons, a good lever action makes a very fine deer rifle for most shooters and most conditions.
Lever action rifles are capable of good accuracy. I have owned a number of them, and all of them have been accurate. They certainly deserve to be fitted with a good quality scope. For deer hunting, that should be a scope somewhere between 1.5 and 4 power. And since Winchester changed the M-94 to angle ejection, scope mounting is no problem at all. Of course, it never was a problem for the Marlin and Savage lever actions, since they have always ejected to the side.
The ballistics of our chosen deer cartridges are perfect for the job. Factory loads give the 150 grain .30-30 bullet a muzzle velocity (MV) of 2,390 fps and a muzzle energy (ME) of 1,902 ft. lbs. The 170 grain .30-30 bullet has a MV of 2,200 fps and a ME of 1,827 ft. lbs. The .300 Sav. factory load launches the 150 grain bullet at 2,630 fps with 2,303 ft. lbs. of ME. The 180 grain bullet in the .300 Sav. factory load has a MV of 2,350 fps and a ME of 2,207 ft. lbs. Factory loads for the .32 Spec give the 170 grain bullet a MV of 2,250 fps and a ME of 1,911 ft. lbs. Reloaders can duplicate all of these loads.
The maximum point blank range (MPBR) of a scoped .30-30 shooting a 150 grain factory load is about 225 yards; with a 170 grain factory load it is 211 yards. For the .300 Savage shooting a 150 grain factory load the MPBR is about 259 yards; with a 180 grain factory load it is 236 yards. The MPBR of the .32 Win. Spec. shooting a 170 grain factory load is about 215 yards.
As you can see, the .300 Savage gives an average increase of about 200 fps with consequently flatter trajectory, and also increased recoil. Those sensitive to recoil will find the .30-30 with the 150 grain bullet the most comfortable cartridge to shoot, particularly in a lightweight rifle. The .30-30 with this load is especially suitable for young or beginning hunters. It kicks only a little more than a .243 or .257, but delivers a full size bullet to anchor a deer. Of course, it is also used by many experienced shooters, and it is my favorite .30-30 deer load.
Deer are not particularly large or tough animals, and what you want to do is put a quick opening bullet into the heart/lung area. A tough, controlled expansion bullet designed for deep penetration usually does not dump energy fast enough for quick kills on deer. This is another reason I favor the 150 grain bullet in the .30-30 for deer hunting; I recommend the 170 grain bullet for larger or tougher animals.
There is also a difference in bullet construction within a single weight class. In the Winchester line, for example, the Power Point is a fairly quick opening soft point bullet. The Silvertip is designed for delayed expansion and deeper penetration. That is why I used the former for deer hunting with my .32 Special, and the latter when I went elk hunting.
The recoil picture is as follows, all computed for a rifle weight of 7.5 pounds (about the weight of a scoped deer rifle). A .30-30 shooting a 150 grain bullet at 2,390 fps generates about 10.6 ft. lbs. of recoil energy. A .30-30 or .32 Spec. shooting a 170 grain bullet at 2,200 fps recoils with about 11-12 ft. lbs. of energy. The .300 Sav. shoots the flattest, and therefore kicks the hardest. When shooting a 150 grain bullet at 2,630 fps it hits back with about 14.8 ft. lbs. of recoil energy. With the 180 grain bullet at 2,350 fps, a .300 Sav. has approximately 15.2 ft. lbs. of recoil energy.
These are typical factory loads for these calibers. I computed the recoil energy figures using the formula given in the 43rd Edition of the Lyman Reloading Handbook, so if my figures don't exactly match those you read somewhere else, they were probably using a different source. But these figures are close enough for general purposes. All of these numbers are far enough below the average person's maximum tolerable recoil level of 20 ft. lbs. to be considered reasonably comfortable to shoot. Compared to a .30-06 or a 7mm Magnum these cartridges are a pleasure to shoot.
All three of these cartridges are proven game getters, and with good bullet placement they will all give good results. They are perfect for antelope, deer and black bear, and will also do for larger animals such as caribou at short to medium range. The .300 Savage with the 180 grain bullet is particularly effective for larger animals. As always, bullet placement is by far the most important factor in killing power. A .300 Savage bullet in the lungs will result in elk steaks for dinner, while a poorly placed bullet, even from a powerful medium bore like a .338 Magnum, will probably result in a long and fruitless chase. The 2003 version of Remington's Model 700 Classic rifle is chambered for the .300 Savage.
Despite the great long-term popularity of these deer rifles and cartridges, nobody seems to be singing their praises much these days. I guess reliable meat-and-potatoes type cartridges just aren't exciting to jaded gun writers. But never forget that they get the venison. There are newer, fancier, faster, and certainly more expensive cartridges available. A few of them may have some of the advantages of availability, adequate bullet size, trajectory, and mild recoil mentioned earlier. But it is hard to think of many that combine all of these virtues. So the next time you are thinking about a new (or previously owned) deer rifle, remember that even if you have not read much about the .30-30 Winchester, .300 Savage, or .32 Winchester Special recently, they are still popular and very hard, if not impossible, to beat.
DD
Ideal Deer Cartridges
By Chuck Hawks
What we need is a good, effective, North American deer hunting cartridge and rifle combination. We need a rifle that is reliable, accurate, easy to operate, and easy to carry. And we need a cartridge that can be chambered in short, light rifles and still not kick the shooter out from under his or her hat; a cartridge with a maximum point blank range (+/- 3" from the line of sight) of at least 200 yards. This ideal deer rifle/cartridge combination must shoot bullets of big game hunting diameter and weight, say .264 caliber and 150 grains, or larger. And it should have an optimal killing range for taking a 200 pound deer of at least 200 yards.
Three older, established cartridges come to mind. These are the .30-30 Winchester, .300 Savage, and .32 Winchester Special. All three shoot a 150-180 grain bullet fast enough so that it won't rise or fall more than about 3 inches until it is out past 200 yards when properly zeroed. A 200 yard trajectory of plus or minus 3" will take about 90% of all the deer killed in North America. All three of these cartridges are readily available anywhere in North America that deer are hunted, and they are chambered in fast handling lever action "deer rifles" like the Winchester Model 94, Marlin 336, and Savage 99. And because these rifles have been made for over a century, there are many good, used rifles available to the bargain conscious hunter.
These traditional deer rifles became traditional deer rifles by being very efficient and popular. The lever action is much more convenient to operate from the shoulder than a bolt action, as well as faster for repeat shots and, unlike a bolt action, it is ambidextrous. It is also flat and easier to carry in the hand, or a saddle scabbard, than a bolt action. Its only real competitor today is the autoloading rifle. But the autoloader is generally heavier and not as reliable as a lever action, particularly in very cold or dusty climates, and it may not be legal in all jurisdictions. For all of these reasons, a good lever action makes a very fine deer rifle for most shooters and most conditions.
Lever action rifles are capable of good accuracy. I have owned a number of them, and all of them have been accurate. They certainly deserve to be fitted with a good quality scope. For deer hunting, that should be a scope somewhere between 1.5 and 4 power. And since Winchester changed the M-94 to angle ejection, scope mounting is no problem at all. Of course, it never was a problem for the Marlin and Savage lever actions, since they have always ejected to the side.
The ballistics of our chosen deer cartridges are perfect for the job. Factory loads give the 150 grain .30-30 bullet a muzzle velocity (MV) of 2,390 fps and a muzzle energy (ME) of 1,902 ft. lbs. The 170 grain .30-30 bullet has a MV of 2,200 fps and a ME of 1,827 ft. lbs. The .300 Sav. factory load launches the 150 grain bullet at 2,630 fps with 2,303 ft. lbs. of ME. The 180 grain bullet in the .300 Sav. factory load has a MV of 2,350 fps and a ME of 2,207 ft. lbs. Factory loads for the .32 Spec give the 170 grain bullet a MV of 2,250 fps and a ME of 1,911 ft. lbs. Reloaders can duplicate all of these loads.
The maximum point blank range (MPBR) of a scoped .30-30 shooting a 150 grain factory load is about 225 yards; with a 170 grain factory load it is 211 yards. For the .300 Savage shooting a 150 grain factory load the MPBR is about 259 yards; with a 180 grain factory load it is 236 yards. The MPBR of the .32 Win. Spec. shooting a 170 grain factory load is about 215 yards.
As you can see, the .300 Savage gives an average increase of about 200 fps with consequently flatter trajectory, and also increased recoil. Those sensitive to recoil will find the .30-30 with the 150 grain bullet the most comfortable cartridge to shoot, particularly in a lightweight rifle. The .30-30 with this load is especially suitable for young or beginning hunters. It kicks only a little more than a .243 or .257, but delivers a full size bullet to anchor a deer. Of course, it is also used by many experienced shooters, and it is my favorite .30-30 deer load.
Deer are not particularly large or tough animals, and what you want to do is put a quick opening bullet into the heart/lung area. A tough, controlled expansion bullet designed for deep penetration usually does not dump energy fast enough for quick kills on deer. This is another reason I favor the 150 grain bullet in the .30-30 for deer hunting; I recommend the 170 grain bullet for larger or tougher animals.
There is also a difference in bullet construction within a single weight class. In the Winchester line, for example, the Power Point is a fairly quick opening soft point bullet. The Silvertip is designed for delayed expansion and deeper penetration. That is why I used the former for deer hunting with my .32 Special, and the latter when I went elk hunting.
The recoil picture is as follows, all computed for a rifle weight of 7.5 pounds (about the weight of a scoped deer rifle). A .30-30 shooting a 150 grain bullet at 2,390 fps generates about 10.6 ft. lbs. of recoil energy. A .30-30 or .32 Spec. shooting a 170 grain bullet at 2,200 fps recoils with about 11-12 ft. lbs. of energy. The .300 Sav. shoots the flattest, and therefore kicks the hardest. When shooting a 150 grain bullet at 2,630 fps it hits back with about 14.8 ft. lbs. of recoil energy. With the 180 grain bullet at 2,350 fps, a .300 Sav. has approximately 15.2 ft. lbs. of recoil energy.
These are typical factory loads for these calibers. I computed the recoil energy figures using the formula given in the 43rd Edition of the Lyman Reloading Handbook, so if my figures don't exactly match those you read somewhere else, they were probably using a different source. But these figures are close enough for general purposes. All of these numbers are far enough below the average person's maximum tolerable recoil level of 20 ft. lbs. to be considered reasonably comfortable to shoot. Compared to a .30-06 or a 7mm Magnum these cartridges are a pleasure to shoot.
All three of these cartridges are proven game getters, and with good bullet placement they will all give good results. They are perfect for antelope, deer and black bear, and will also do for larger animals such as caribou at short to medium range. The .300 Savage with the 180 grain bullet is particularly effective for larger animals. As always, bullet placement is by far the most important factor in killing power. A .300 Savage bullet in the lungs will result in elk steaks for dinner, while a poorly placed bullet, even from a powerful medium bore like a .338 Magnum, will probably result in a long and fruitless chase. The 2003 version of Remington's Model 700 Classic rifle is chambered for the .300 Savage.
Despite the great long-term popularity of these deer rifles and cartridges, nobody seems to be singing their praises much these days. I guess reliable meat-and-potatoes type cartridges just aren't exciting to jaded gun writers. But never forget that they get the venison. There are newer, fancier, faster, and certainly more expensive cartridges available. A few of them may have some of the advantages of availability, adequate bullet size, trajectory, and mild recoil mentioned earlier. But it is hard to think of many that combine all of these virtues. So the next time you are thinking about a new (or previously owned) deer rifle, remember that even if you have not read much about the .30-30 Winchester, .300 Savage, or .32 Winchester Special recently, they are still popular and very hard, if not impossible, to beat.
11-13-2005, 11:59 AM
#2
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: fort mcmurray alberta canada
Posts: 5,667
RE: The Ideal Deer Cartridge
Everyone is certainly entitled to their opinion but I do not share the opinions expressed in the article.Firstly neithera .264" bullet nor a 150grain bulletis required to kill any deer under any conditions.A 257 roberts or a 25-06 will kill any deer that walks.Secondly the author is assuming a range of 200 yards while the truth is thatsome hunting conditions will present significantly farther shots that make the 30-30 and 32 special very poor choices.He makes an issue of the lever action being ambidexterous appear to be an advantage yet how many people do know that shoot of both shoulders?He claims that a lever action shooting cartridges such as the 30-30 or 300 savage is so comfortable to shoot.Yes these cartridges do produce less actual recoil than many others but the steel buttplates and theshape of many lever actions actually pass more felt recoil on to the shooter than a bolt actionchambered in 257 roberts or 25-06.As I said previously,everyone is entitled to their opinion,but I simply find too many faults in the article to share theauthors opinions.
11-13-2005, 01:23 PM
#5
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: S Texas
Posts: 1,037
RE: The Ideal Deer Cartridge
Jeez,I hate to admit Chuck Hawks is right about anything. I can't stand the man's writing, and I cringe every time somebody quotes him... BUT!
In this case, he is absolutely right.
Deer are not tough to kill...folks have been arguing over the "best" cartridge for deer forever, and it isn't going to stop. I've killed them with everything from a .223 to a 577/.450 Martini Henry. You know what? Every timeI stuck a bullet in the vitals they died. Didn't matter if it was a 7MM Remington mag at 3000 FPS, or a BP loaded .38/40 WCF at 1200 FPS.
In this case, he is absolutely right.
Deer are not tough to kill...folks have been arguing over the "best" cartridge for deer forever, and it isn't going to stop. I've killed them with everything from a .223 to a 577/.450 Martini Henry. You know what? Every timeI stuck a bullet in the vitals they died. Didn't matter if it was a 7MM Remington mag at 3000 FPS, or a BP loaded .38/40 WCF at 1200 FPS.
11-13-2005, 01:30 PM
#6
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Port Neches, Texas
Posts: 5,514
RE: The Ideal Deer Cartridge
Thats just Hawk's opinion, and like a**holes, everybodys got one!
Mine is .243, on up with at least good 100 gr. bullets!
The 99 Savage is highon my wish list though!
Mine is .243, on up with at least good 100 gr. bullets!
The 99 Savage is highon my wish list though!
11-13-2005, 06:51 PM
#7
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,695
RE: The Ideal Deer Cartridge
Far from the perfect cartridges. Will they work? absolutely.
100 yds shots are probably the average for whitetail hunting ,so any high powered cartridge works in that situation.
A screw driver is one of the most efficient tools for a screw, is there anything better ? you bet, a cordless drill. LOL.
same thing here. Are there better cartridges ? you bet ! A lot better choices out there.
I have freezer full of meat and some on the stove as we speak.3 shots this year and 3 dead deer. The weapons I used were a stick and string and a .22 hornet, which took a 160lb 11 pointer. Doesnt take much if you do your part. I like getting up close and personal when I hunt. It's all I need where I hunt.
100 yds shots are probably the average for whitetail hunting ,so any high powered cartridge works in that situation.
A screw driver is one of the most efficient tools for a screw, is there anything better ? you bet, a cordless drill. LOL.
same thing here. Are there better cartridges ? you bet ! A lot better choices out there.
I have freezer full of meat and some on the stove as we speak.3 shots this year and 3 dead deer. The weapons I used were a stick and string and a .22 hornet, which took a 160lb 11 pointer. Doesnt take much if you do your part. I like getting up close and personal when I hunt. It's all I need where I hunt.
